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Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

The worrisome part is that he could use the same rationalization to justify lethal force.

There are those so afraid of the ramifications and consequences of freedom that they'd excuse any amount of force from the government in order to ensure their "safety" and/or convenience.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Sure:

You believe these people, though they were sitting on the ground in docile positions with their arms locked, deserved to be pepper sprayed in the face because the cause they are protesting is not valid. Popular sentiment in 1955 was that the cause Rosa Parks was protesting was not valid either, ergo Rosa Parks should get pepper sprayed in the face when she refuses to leave her seat and the cops have to be called.

If the opinion of a protest determines its validity, and therefore its right to exist, then Rosa Parks would definitely be pepper sprayed. Moreover, those kinds of things did happen to civil rights protesters in the (as a previous poster pointed out).


You said:

"j-mac, you don't agree with the protests, but that doesn't change the fact that you think Rosa Parks should have been sprayed in the face with mace for civil disobedience."

Now either apologize for lying about what I wrote, or I have no choice under the rules but to report it.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I thought they were told to disperse?

Why not shoot them in the head? I mean...if the officers told them they were going to shoot them in the head and they chose to stick around, then the officers would be justified in shooting them in the heads, right?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I thought Rosa Parks was told to move from her seat? Are you going to answer my question?

Lets not even go into the fact that ones way more legitimate... These protesters have been doing this for way to long... I think everybody has heard what they had to say. Now its becoming stupid. Its not like its their first day and they were told to leave this has been, I think, two months. So no you can't relate this **** to Rosa Parks.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

You said:

"j-mac, you don't agree with the protests, but that doesn't change the fact that you think Rosa Parks should have been sprayed in the face with mace for civil disobedience."

Now either apologize for lying about what I wrote, or I have no choice under the rules but to report it.

j-mac

There's always choice. But it's an interesting question. Rosa Parks disobeyed a "lawful order" yes? Should she be sprayed in the face with mace?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Lets not even go into the fact that ones way more legitimate...

Says you. But who died and made you God of Protest?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

You said:

"j-mac, you don't agree with the protests, but that doesn't change the fact that you think Rosa Parks should have been sprayed in the face with mace for civil disobedience."

Now either apologize for lying about what I wrote, or I have no choice under the rules but to report it.

j-mac

Report it, I don't give a ****. I still think that. If you think an opinion of a protest allows for that protest to broken up through violent force (peppery spray, batons, hoses, tear gas, et al), then there is no way those tactics would not have been used against Rosa Parks and the civil rights movement (and in fact many of those tactics were used against that movement for the exact reason you list). You are justifying using excessive force because you don't agree with something.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Why not shoot them in the head? I mean...if the officers told them they were going to shoot them in the head and they chose to stick around, then the officers would be justified in shooting them in the heads, right?

Yeah, why not?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

there may have been, there may not have been. Are you really calling me a racist because I don't support OWS?

j-mac

I would call you a racist if I thought you were a racist. Personally, I don't care if you support or don't support OWS. I don't support them. But they do have rights, and the video shows me a clear rights violation. And you seem to be ok with it under the guise that the cops were surrounded as they nonchalantly walk around and pepper spray some kids.

Have you ever seen South Park? Where Stan's uncle Jimbo yells "They're coming right for us" before he shoots an animal so he can claim self defense. I am getting the same feeling here.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Lets not even go into the fact that ones way more legitimate... These protesters have been doing this for way to long... I think everybody has heard what they had to say. Now its becoming stupid. Its not like its their first day and they were told to leave this has been, I think, two months. So no you can't relate this **** to Rosa Parks.

That does not make any sense.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Yeah, why not?

Really? Are you honestly saying that officers would have the right to shoot the protesters in the head if they warned them beforehand that they would if they didn't leave? Or are you just being facetious?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Uhh... The god before me?

So no one. Thus even if you feel one protest is more "legitimate" than another does not give you authority to excuse government force against protest and assembly.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Ignorant would be the right word. Ignorant in that you believe you have the ability to invalidate a peaceful protest, and, at the same time, validate violence used against them because you have invalidated their movement. That's some circuclar logic there, I agree.


Look here, you don't seem to have the facts. The protesters were handed leaflets the day before that they needed to have their tents removed from the quad by 3 p.m. on this day, that is number 1.

2. they ignored this, and police were told to move in and remove the tents, which they did.

3. the protesters surrounded the police as they were leaving, cutting them off from back up, or exit routes.

4. the protesters refused to abide a lawful order to disperse, or force would be used.

5. force was used.

Would you have rather they billy clubbed their way out?


j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

That does not make any sense.

Ok, Rosa Parks sat in the seat for a few minutes until some "whiteys" got on. She was told to move to the back of the bus.
These protesters have been protesting for two months (I think) and are now being told to get the **** out. They exercised their right to protest.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Lets not even go into the fact that ones way more legitimate... These protesters have been doing this for way to long... I think everybody has heard what they had to say. Now its becoming stupid. Its not like its their first day and they were told to leave this has been, I think, two months. So no you can't relate this **** to Rosa Parks.

Oh, we have another guy here who can decide the validity of a movement! Wow, good to have you! :thumbs: Now, actually, this is at Berkley, so I am not aware of how long they were there and I doubt you are either. In fact, by a quick search, I believe this was a one-day protest:

Berkeley president calls pepper spray incident 'appalling'
The protest Friday was held in support of the overall Occupy Wall Street movement and in solidarity with protesters at the University of California, Berkeley who were jabbed by police with batons on Nov. 9.

Again, it is not your job to determine the validity of the movement, and while you are of course entitled to your opinion, your opinion does not allow for excessive police force either.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

So no one. Thus even if you feel one protest is more "legitimate" than another does not give you authority to excuse government force against protest and assembly.

They were told to disperse. They didn't, and they were met with what was told to them would happen. Too bad.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Lets not even go into the fact that ones way more legitimate... These protesters have been doing this for way to long... I think everybody has heard what they had to say. Now its becoming stupid. Its not like its their first day and they were told to leave this has been, I think, two months. So no you can't relate this **** to Rosa Parks.

Good point, the civil rights movement was an overnight protest.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Really? Are you honestly saying that officers would have the right to shoot the protesters in the head if they warned them beforehand that they would if they didn't leave? Or are you just being facetious?

Take a wild guess.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Oh, we have another guy here who can decide the validity of a movement! Wow, good to have you! :thumbs: Now, actually, this is at Berkley, so I am not aware of how long they were there and I doubt you are either. In fact, by a quick search, I believe this was a one-day protest:

Berkeley president calls pepper spray incident 'appalling'


Again, it is not your job to determine the validity of the movement, and while you are of course entitled to your opinion, your opinion does not allow for excessive police force either.

What is excessive about it? Tell me when surrounded with agitated (by your own words) protesters what should they have done....Said pretty please?

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

They were told to disperse. They didn't, and they were met with what was told to them would happen. Too bad.

j-mac

And you demonstrate your disdain for freedom. You essentially say that the police just have to say they have to move and if they don't then they can use force. That's government force against the free exercise of rights and has no limitations set upon the State for what it can and cannot "disperse". It in essence can say any and all assembly and protest can be told to "disperse" and if not, then force can be used. It's a bit sick if you ask me. I'd prefer to be free than enslaved thank you very much.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Good point, the civil rights movement was an overnight protest.

lol, talking about Rosa Parks being told to leave... not the civil rights protest. In the civil rights protest they didn't occupy streets for long periods of time. Now, did they?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

What is excessive about it? Tell me when surrounded with agitated (by your own words) protesters what should they have done....Said pretty please?

j-mac

Government force against the free exercise of rights, that was what is excessive. There was no legitimate reason to have broken up peaceful assembly and protest.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

lol, talking about Rosa Parks being told to leave... not the civil rights protest. In the civil rights protest they didn't occupy streets for long periods of time. Now, did they?

There were plenty of various forms of protest from peaceful to those calling for violence. We have the right to peacefully assemble and protest. No where does that say it's subjected to time spans.
 
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