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Thread: Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

  1. #191
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I think there are a couple of distinctions that need to be made here.

    1) You are confusing reasonable people with liberal hacks (I do the opposite all of the time - it's not hard)
    Seriously, where? I don't care that people are partisan, but at least own it (I still remember your sig ).

  2. #192
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Stuff your "disclaimer" unless and until you can recognize that certain leftists aren't any different. In another thread, I'm making the argument that we should have the right to buy whichever car is right for us, but some liberals only seem to believe in personal liberties only so long as you share the same values, otherwise, they're all about "the rule of law".

    On the thread topic, anyone who wants to engage in civil disobedience and be some sort or hero for doing it, that's great, but part of that is knowing you bring the consequences of your disobedience on yourself. Crying about it later is ridiculous.
    Reading comprehension fail.

    I never said nor even remotely implied that certain leftists are not deep hypocrites.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  3. #193
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Let's be real here, the only reason you're so concerned about this at all is because you're sympathetic to the OWS message. Besides, I expanded on my post you replied too. Basically, some on the left are completely fine with the "persuasion of power" so long as they agree with what's being coerced.
    I disagree. I would not be okay with any peaceful protest ending this way. It's a health risk to everyone involved, as it could result in someone dying on the protest side, and it can often lead to riots. I'd say it is the reverse, that you only are unsympathetic because you do not agree with the OWS message.

    What other situation would agree that it is ok to mace someone in the face when they are merely sitting down? Or, as the appellate court states:

    HEADWATERS FOREST DEFENSE v. THE COUNTY OF HUMBOLDT
    Quote Originally Posted by UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
    Defendants' repeated use of pepper spray was also
    clearly unreasonable. As we recently concluded, the use of
    pepper spray "may be reasonable as a general policy to bring
    an arrestee under control, but in a situation in which an
    arrestee surrenders and is rendered helpless, any reasonable
    officer would know that a continued use of the weapon or a
    refusal without cause to alleviate its harmful effects constitutes excessive force.
    Can't we all just be reasonable?
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  4. #194
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Seriously, where? I don't care that people are partisan, but at least own it (I still remember your sig ).
    I am well aware that I am partisan, but I do not consider myself to be a hack. And I did own it, as I clearly was saying that I confuse conservative hacks with normal conservatives all the time.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-21-11 at 07:17 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  5. #195
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Shouldn't we wait to see what the investigation of this incident turns out to be? I mean, the use of a snippet in time really doesn't show the picture.

    j-mac
    If the protesters got physical while the police were removing them then it would it have been okay for the police to use pepper spray on them.
    From what the video showed it looked like the protesters were just sitting refusing to move, not something that should be responded to with pepper spray. Two or two police could have picked each protester up and tossed them in the back of the paddy wagon.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  6. #196
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Let's be real here, the only reason you're so concerned about this at all is because you're sympathetic to the OWS message. Besides, I expanded on my post you replied too. Basically, some on the left are completely fine with the "persuasion of power" so long as they agree with what's being coerced.
    At least for myself, that's utterly inaccurate. I support the rights of Fred Phelps and his in-bred family of idiots to protest as well despite the fact that it makes me want to commit acts of violence that I despise in others.

    It's their right to be patently idiotic and offensive and I support their right to do it.

    That's what America and the Constitution is about. If you believe your rights are being taken from you, then protest and civil disobedience are a part of it. Police should maintain order, but should refrain from force to do so except when absolutely 100% necessary for the protection from harm or death. Inconveniencing a few people (or even a few hundred people) is not an excuse for excessive force and it shouldn't be celebrated by anyone just because they don't like the protester's message.

  7. #197
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Why do you ignore that I have already shown that an appellate court already ruled it is abuse. It's not up for debate, according to our court systems. In fact, it says that you would agree that it is abuse, unless you are unreasonable.
    You mean we call for government to be smaller in size, but then cheer when government abuse of citizens is on display? When did that happen? And again, for the abuse part, see the court case I posted multiple times which very clearly states it is an abuse of power to pepper spray peaceful protesters.
    I wont agree, simply because I dont believe it is. That says nothing aboiut what the ultimate decisions will be (and hey...ever watch Cops? People get 'abused' all the time) regarding the police actions...that is an opinion. Pepper spray is a bitch...for a little while. Then...leaves a nasty taste and smell for a while longer. As compared to the alternative, which is the police, forcibly breaking peoples locking grips to remove them. And if you dont think people would be bitching about the physical force...well...its OK...cuz we both know they would.

  8. #198
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Reading comprehension fail.

    I never said nor even remotely implied that certain leftists are not deep hypocrites.
    If you choose to condemn only one side, that says something right there doesn't it?

  9. #199
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I disagree. I would not be okay with any peaceful protest ending this way. It's a health risk to everyone involved, as it could result in someone dying on the protest side, and it can often lead to riots. I'd say it is the reverse, that you only are unsympathetic because you do not agree with the OWS message.

    What other situation would agree that it is ok to mace someone in the face when they are merely sitting down? Or, as the appellate court states:

    HEADWATERS FOREST DEFENSE v. THE COUNTY OF HUMBOLDT


    Can't we all just be reasonable?
    In order for that to apply the protesters have to agree to surrender and allow themselves to be rendered helpless. I think you are mixing your apples with your bowling bowls and saying LOOK...A SPACE SHUTTLE!

  10. #200
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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I think there are a couple of distinctions that need to be made here.

    1) You are confusing reasonable people with liberal hacks (I do the opposite all of the time - it's not hard)
    2) These are two different types of protests, there are far more people in NYC, and there may have been cause in NYC.

    Here, I can only comment on what I know. Do I know anything about the crowd earlier? Nope. It could have been agitated, as some have said, but that is irrelevant since the police force did not mace the crowd. The police force maced a group of protesters who were sitting on the ground with their arms interlocked. According to previous court rulings, that is an abuse of power than any "reasonable" person would be able to recognize.

    The police force just needs to do more training and might want to get ready for some lawsuits.
    You DO believe the protesters should have been cuffed and dragged...forcibly...without the use of teargas, right?

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