Page 19 of 33 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 324

Thread: Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

  1. #181
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Please show where either of us has said such.


    j-mac
    It's easy to come to that conclusion through simple logical deduction - even easier for Grim than you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    **** THE LAW...

    Not an option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    I'm not asking for your opinion of the law they were violating, I'm asking you to please tell me in your opinion, exactly what the police should have done to enforce the law in this situation?
    According to Grim, though they were being nonviolent, the law had to be enforced. That applies to almost every civil rights protest ever.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-21-11 at 06:03 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  2. #182
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Please show where either of us has said such.


    j-mac
    Please tell me, j-mac (you and I can usually communicate pretty well) how it's that different.

    Rosa Parks violated a law she felt needed to be violated to prove a point. Back then, the vast majority of Americans disagreed with her cause. Violence was frequently used by police against Civil Rights protesters.

    You may think the OWS protesters aren't making as valid a point as Rosa Parks did and that's perfectly fine.

    But why is it okay to attack these protesters with violence because they defy law enforcement, but not Rosa Parks and others who defied law enforcement in the 1950 and 1960s Civil Rights Era?

    The only argument I can see that you have is that you agreed with her and don't agree with these kids.

  3. #183
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 06:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,957
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nice authoritarian argument there. Shouldn't there be....I don't know....actual PROOF they were a threat? Not speculation? They were not a threat no matter how much you want to spin it that way for government authority.
    DISCLAIMER: Please note that this is not directed at J-Mac or moderate conservatives, rather it is a view of the extreme right.

    And that is the deep hypocrisy I find in many who are on the far right today. They complain about big government, yet want the police to have the power to break up protests. They complain about the budget and the deficit, but are then calling for the US to invade Iran. In reality, these people do want big government, but only in terms of the security apparatus. They essentially want to live in an authoritarian state in the sense of the security apparatus, but then don't want to deal with the effects of that authoritarian state, namely the lack of personal freedom.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  4. #184
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:24 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,721

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    DISCLAIMER: Please note that this is not directed at J-Mac or moderate conservatives, rather it is a view of the extreme right.

    And that is the deep hypocrisy I find in many who are on the far right today. They complain about big government, yet want the police to have the power to break up protests. They complain about the budget and the deficit, but are then calling for the US to invade Iran. In reality, these people do want big government, but only in terms of the security apparatus. They essentially want to live in an authoritarian state in the sense of the security apparatus, but then don't want to deal with the effects of that authoritarian state, namely the lack of personal freedom.
    Stuff your "disclaimer" unless and until you can recognize that certain leftists aren't any different. In another thread, I'm making the argument that we should have the right to buy whichever car is right for us, but some liberals only seem to believe in personal liberties only so long as you share the same values, otherwise, they're all about "the rule of law".

    On the thread topic, anyone who wants to engage in civil disobedience and be some sort or hero for doing it, that's great, but part of that is knowing you bring the consequences of your disobedience on yourself. Crying about it later is ridiculous.
    Last edited by X Factor; 11-21-11 at 06:47 PM.

  5. #185
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,600

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Handcuffed the sitting protesters and dragged them away.
    They have done that in New York and people still scream abuse. Its not so easy as just handcuffing them and dragging them away. the individuals were not compliant. So now you are saying you want them to FORCE them into cuffs...THEN drag them away. You want the police to have to physically engage...and THATS not going to be potentially more dangerous to both the police and the protester than simply getting sprayed with CS?

  6. #186
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    They have done that in New York and people still scream abuse. Its not so easy as just handcuffing them and dragging them away. the individuals were not compliant. So now you are saying you want them to FORCE them into cuffs...THEN drag them away. You want the police to have to physically engage...and THATS not going to be potentially more dangerous to both the police and the protester than simply getting sprayed with CS?
    Why do you ignore that I have already shown that an appellate court already ruled it is abuse. It's not up for debate, according to our court systems. In fact, it says that you would agree that it is abuse, unless you are unreasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Stuff your "disclaimer" unless and until you can recognize that certain leftists aren't any different.
    You mean we call for government to be smaller in size, but then cheer when government abuse of citizens is on display? When did that happen? And again, for the abuse part, see the court case I posted multiple times which very clearly states it is an abuse of power to pepper spray peaceful protesters.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-21-11 at 06:46 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  7. #187
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,600

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Because for some reason whenever there is policy brutality there is always someone who says "but we can't see what happened 20 minutes before!", when in reality, what is happening in that very moment is enough to indict. In no way is pepper spraying a group of protesters who are sitting down a legitimate police tactic.
    In your opinion...were the protesters violating the law? Do the protesters have the right to sit and protest anywhere regardless of the law, all in the name of civil disobedience? Im seeing you say that the police could have cuffed them and dragged them away...you believe the protesters would have gone nice and peaceful like?

    Your opinion is that the use of tear gas is not an acceptable use of police tactics. I can post pics and videos from New York with the OWS groups where the police did precisely what p[eople here have suggested...cuffed them and dragged them off...and GUESS what the pro OWS folks screamed? Brutality baby.

    I personally think everyone is being little bitches about the tear gas. Its simply not that bif of a deal and I GUARANTEE you that the effects for that crowd of protesters is pheysically less harmful than it would have been had they physically removed them.

  8. #188
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    In your opinion...were the protesters violating the law? Do the protesters have the right to sit and protest anywhere regardless of the law, all in the name of civil disobedience? Im seeing you say that the police could have cuffed them and dragged them away...you believe the protesters would have gone nice and peaceful like?

    Your opinion is that the use of tear gas is not an acceptable use of police tactics. I can post pics and videos from New York with the OWS groups where the police did precisely what p[eople here have suggested...cuffed them and dragged them off...and GUESS what the pro OWS folks screamed? Brutality baby.

    I personally think everyone is being little bitches about the tear gas. Its simply not that bif of a deal and I GUARANTEE you that the effects for that crowd of protesters is pheysically less harmful than it would have been had they physically removed them.
    I think there are a couple of distinctions that need to be made here.

    1) You are confusing reasonable people with liberal hacks (I do the opposite all of the time - it's not hard)
    2) These are two different types of protests, there are far more people in NYC, and there may have been cause in NYC.

    Here, I can only comment on what I know. Do I know anything about the crowd earlier? Nope. It could have been agitated, as some have said, but that is irrelevant since the police force did not mace the crowd. The police force maced a group of protesters who were sitting on the ground with their arms interlocked. According to previous court rulings, that is an abuse of power than any "reasonable" person would be able to recognize.

    The police force just needs to do more training and might want to get ready for some lawsuits.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-21-11 at 06:56 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  9. #189
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:24 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,721

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post

    You mean we call for government to be smaller in size, but then cheer when government abuse of citizens is on display? When did that happen? And again, for the abuse part, see the court case I posted multiple times which very clearly states it is an abuse of power to pepper spray peaceful protesters.
    Let's be real here, the only reason you're so concerned about this at all is because you're sympathetic to the OWS message. Besides, I expanded on my post you replied too. Basically, some on the left are completely fine with the "persuasion of power" so long as they agree with what's being coerced.

  10. #190
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Please tell me, j-mac (you and I can usually communicate pretty well) how it's that different.

    Rosa Parks violated a law she felt needed to be violated to prove a point. Back then, the vast majority of Americans disagreed with her cause. Violence was frequently used by police against Civil Rights protesters.

    You may think the OWS protesters aren't making as valid a point as Rosa Parks did and that's perfectly fine.

    But why is it okay to attack these protesters with violence because they defy law enforcement, but not Rosa Parks and others who defied law enforcement in the 1950 and 1960s Civil Rights Era?

    The only argument I can see that you have is that you agreed with her and don't agree with these kids.

    In the Parks case, she obviously mounted a civil disobedience act that when confronted she was arrested, removed from the bus, and cited, then let go peacefully. Now, you can make the case that after that, it sparked rioting, and police clashes with protesters in the events that followed that event, but for that event, if I am not mistaken, it was clearly not a threat to officers at the moment.

    In fact as the story goes, it was the bus driver that moved the sign and told Parks to move or he'd have her arrested. When she refused to move for the driver, he called a cop, one cop, and she was arrested without incident.

    Now that is far different than what happened in this case, and I am sorry if people don't know history well enough before making the analogy, and falsely accusing that I said she should have been pepper sprayed when I didn't but her act was not anything like this display.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

Page 19 of 33 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •