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Thread: Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian_style View Post
    This is were I keep saying that we need to quit funding these monkeys, If they see no blatant crime being committed and no court injunction, then what went on here is worth the same, minus all the money pissed away with calling in the extra goons and the lawsuit payouts before it is said and done. What a sham.
    How do you know they didn't observe a crime being committed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    The fact that protesters were violating the law, is not in dispute... So I ask again, please tell me in your opinion, exactly what the police should have done to enforce the law in this situation?
    Your right someone may have been disorderly, considered the same as a traffic ticket. Maybe they should have issued some tickets. BUT NOPE! Law Enforcement breaks the laws on felony levels, did any of them get arrested?

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Handcuffed the sitting protesters and dragged them away.
    What if they resist? Then spray them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    What law? And I already said, if there were any laws being broken, the people were sitting on the ground with their hands by their sides... arrest them one by one. I've already shown that the courts have found this type of response to peaceful protest to be excessive. Go back one page and you can read it for yourself.
    Nope, now you are changing your story. The arms of these people were clearly interlocked to prevent police from removing them one by one. And you haven't shown anything yet other than one particular case, where circumstances could very well have been different than this protest. The fact is they were ordered to clear the sidewalk, and they refused, the police then employed a common agent to subdue them and effect arrest. Perfectly legal.


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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What if they resist? Then spray them?
    Resistance would be escalation and appropriate force could be used.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Resistance would be escalation and appropriate force could be used.

    Define "appropriate"


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I don't think so. Were the individuals in this case surrounding the police? Were they interlocking arms as to prohibit the officers effecting an arrest on these people by not allowing them to be moved? Were these protesters that the court is talking about her blocking a walk, or road way?

    Pepper spray is not only a legal, but an effective way to disperse a crowd, and effect arrests while minimizing the threat to officers involved in crowd control.

    j-mac
    You did not even read it, did you? First of all, they pepper sprayed people who were sitting down, not an "agitated crowd" - so quit attempting to misrepresent that situation. Secondly yes, they said you could not do that:

    plaintiffsappellants ("protestors") linked themselves together with selfreleasing lock-down devices known as "black bears." A "black bear" is a cylinder with a rod or post welded into the center.
    So as you can see, yes, they were locking themselves together - though these people were using "black bears", not just interlocking their arms.

    Defendants asserted at trial that the protestors' use of
    "black bears" constituted " `active' resistance to arrest," meriting the use of force. The Eureka Police Department defines
    "active resistence" as occurring when the"subject is attempting to interfere with the officer's actions by inflicting pain or
    physical injury to the officer without the use of a weapon or
    object." 240 F.3d at 1202-3. Characterizing the protestors'
    activities as "active resistance" is contrary to the facts of the
    case, viewing them, as we must, in the light most favorable
    to the protestors: the protestors were sitting peacefully, were
    easily moved by the police, and did not threaten or harm the
    officers. In sum, it would be clear to a reasonable officer that
    it was excessive to use pepper spray against the nonviolent
    protestors under these circumstances.

    Defendants' repeated use of pepper spray was also
    clearly unreasonable. As we recently concluded, the use of
    pepper spray "may be reasonable as a general policy to bring
    an arrestee under control, but in a situation in which an
    arrestee surrenders and is rendered helpless, any reasonable
    officer would know that a continued use of the weapon or a
    refusal without cause to alleviate its harmful effects constitutes excessive force." LaLonde v. County of Riverside, 204
    551F.3d 947, 961 (9th Cir. 2000) (emphasis supplied). Because
    the officers had control over the protestors it would have been
    clear to any reasonable officer that it was unnecessary to use
    pepper spray to bring them under control, and even
    less necessary to repeatedly use pepper spray against the
    protestors when they refused to release from the"black
    bears." It also would have been clear to any reasonable officer
    that the manner in which the officers used the pepper spray
    was unreasonable.
    Lewis and Philip "authorized full spray
    blasts of [pepper spray], not just Q-tip applications," despite
    the fact that the manufacturer's label on the canisters of pepper spray defendants used " `expressly discouraged' spraying
    [pepper spray] from distances of less than three feet." 240
    F.3d at 1195, 1208
    Got it? That's ****ing crystal clear.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nope, now you are changing your story. The arms of these people were clearly interlocked to prevent police from removing them one by one. And you haven't shown anything yet other than one particular case, where circumstances could very well have been different than this protest. The fact is they were ordered to clear the sidewalk, and they refused, the police then employed a common agent to subdue them and effect arrest. Perfectly legal.


    j-mac
    Dude, I presented a court case where they used metal bars to interlock themselves and even in that case it was found to be unreasonable for the cops to spray with mace. In fact, according to the appellate court, they believe you would have to be an unreasonable person to condone such activity. Their words, not mine. I bolded them for you in the post right about this one.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-21-11 at 05:39 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Define "appropriate"


    j-mac
    I'm not talking to someone dishonest like you. Please refrain from commenting on my posts. Once you learn to stop misrepresenting facts and using criminal thinking to rationalize the officer's excessive use of force and escalation of the situation, I will be happy to converse with you.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 11-21-11 at 05:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Handcuffed the sitting protesters and dragged them away.
    And you think that the protesters would have willingly allowed this? If you look at the video, you will see that they locked arms and made their wrists unaccessible. Did it occur to you, such action would have resulted in a lot of physical injury (as opposed to temporary irritation with pepper spray), with a high potential of a physical altercation between police and protesters breaking out? Such altercations often lead to felony assault charges being filed, while the use of pepper spray only resulted in misdemeanor charges. You are also assuming that the police had the man power to physically move all those students locked in arm like they were. Based on what I saw, that didn't look very likely.

    The use of pepper spray succeeded in dispersing the protesters without bloodshed, without a physical altercation between police and protesters breaking out, and without any serious criminal charges being filed against anyone. I would say that the use of physical, brute force removal as you suggest, wouldn't have such a peaceful outcome.

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