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Thread: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

  1. #31
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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Krugman pretty much nailed this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/op...e-is-good.html

  2. #32
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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Krugman pretty much nailed this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/op...e-is-good.html
    My favorite part

    Why was the supercommittee doomed to fail? Mainly because the gulf between our two major political parties is so wide. Republicans and Democrats don’t just have different priorities; they live in different intellectual and moral universes.

    In Democrat-world, up is up and down is down. Raising taxes increases revenue, and cutting spending while the economy is still depressed reduces employment. But in Republican-world, down is up. The way to increase revenue is to cut taxes on corporations and the wealthy, and slashing government spending is a job-creation strategy. Try getting a leading Republican to admit that the Bush tax cuts increased the deficit or that sharp cuts in government spending (except on the military) would hurt the economic recovery.
    this guy should win a prize.
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  3. #33
    Politically Correct

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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, who are the pratical pragmatists--nice redundancy BTW? Lemme guess, it's the folks who want to raise taxes! Right?
    IMO, a pragmatist would be one who wants to limit deductions, but not raise rates. Or perhaps even lower rates slightly, if by limiting deductions it still accomplishes the goal of increasing revenue in a way that is equitable.

    On the other side, a pragmatist progressive would be one who would agree to raising the retirement age or means-testing entitlement programs, or at least lowering benefits for those who retire before 67 or something.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  4. #34
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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    IMO, a pragmatist would be one who wants to limit deductions, but not raise rates. Or perhaps even lower rates slightly, if by limiting deductions it still accomplishes the goal of increasing revenue in a way that is equitable.

    On the other side, a pragmatist progressive would be one who would agree to raising the retirement age or means-testing entitlement programs, or at least lowering benefits for those who retire before 67 or something.
    The problem is that the biggest spending on personal deductions, by a mile, is the mortgage interest deduction, and we REALLY do not want to be hammering the housing industry while it's laying in a bloody heap. Another big tax expenditure is the deduction for capital gains on home sales. Eliminating that would also hurt the housing industry. Another big one is deductibility of property tax on homes. Another kick in the housing industry's groin. Another is for charitable giving, which you probably don't want to eliminate when so many people are relying on charity.

    I'd like to see them all phased out, but not in the next two or three years.

    Personally I am more than willing to accept raising the retirement age and means testing entitlement programs.

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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Double like!!



    I like this quote:

    “We don't have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven't taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much.” - Ronald Reagan
    Too bad the Stupid Committee never read it.
    That's actually a nice slogan from Reagan - but it doesn't work.

    Remember, when Reagan cut the top tax rate on income to 28% - he also raised Capital Gains to match it.

    Here's my favorite Reagan quote:

    Ronald Reagan: Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?

    Republican Audience: More!

    We are in the current situation because we decided tax cuts for the wealthy were a good idea while starting two unfunded wars. There is no way around that.

    Government Spending as a Percentage of GDP | The Big Picture

    Spending as a share of GDP is up. It's about 25% of GDP (compared to a post-WW2 average of around 21%).

    Historical Source of Revenue as Share of GDP

    However, tax revenues compared to GDP have declined from an average of around 19% of GDP to 14.4% of GDP.

    We don't have JUST a spending problem. We have BOTH a taxing AND spending problem.

    But the biggest problem of all is unemployment and dilly-dallying with the deficit right now isn't going to do anything to magically add jobs.

    Actually, EJ DIonne said it best on NPR the other day, when he basically said, "If Congress would just go home and do nothing for the rest of the year, the deficit would be reduced by $7.9 Trillion over the next decade." Sounds weird, but the Bush tax cuts would be eliminated as would several other loopholes and things that have to be re-upped.

    Deficit solved.

  6. #36
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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with Haymarket; the polarization in this country is a huge problem. I think a lot of it is attributable to the rise of hyperpartisan media outlets that intentionally preach a skewed, radical philosophy and simultaneously seek to undermine the credibility of less biased voices (a/k/a the "lamestream" media). I think political gerrymandering is also a big problem that tends to create a more polarized Congress. The result is that we are sending people to Washington who are seriously disinclined to cooperate, notwithstanding the fact that the vast majority of Americans want more cooperation in Washington.

    I don't know how we fix it.
    To quote the band God Forbid (Chains Of Humanity (Album Version) by God Forbid | Song | Free Music, Listen Now) "Dissent governs a democracy." Unless we, the people of the US, put aside our differences for a couple minutes and agree to combat the horror that our government has become, this is only going to continue. We need radically new campaign reform laws that limit if not entirely eliminate corporate and union influence from all parts of our government because right now, to these politicians, (to quote God Forbid again) "We no longer exist." The American people are nothing to these politicians, they only care about getting re-elected and getting kickbacks from their sponsors.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    To quote the band God Forbid (Chains Of Humanity (Album Version) by God Forbid | Song | Free Music, Listen Now) "Dissent governs a democracy." Unless we, the people of the US, put aside our differences for a couple minutes and agree to combat the horror that our government has become, this is only going to continue. We need radically new campaign reform laws that limit if not entirely eliminate corporate and union influence from all parts of our government because right now, to these politicians, (to quote God Forbid again) "We no longer exist." The American people are nothing to these politicians, they only care about getting re-elected and getting kickbacks from their sponsors.
    I couldn't agree more.

  8. #38
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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible
    View Post
    To quote the band God Forbid (Chains Of Humanity (Album Version) by God Forbid | Song | Free Music, Listen Now) "Dissent governs a democracy." Unless we, the people of the US, put aside our differences for a couple minutes and agree to combat the horror that our government has become, this is only going to continue. We need radically new campaign reform laws that limit if not entirely eliminate corporate and union influence from all parts of our government because right now, to these politicians, (to quote God Forbid again) "We no longer exist." The American people are nothing to these politicians, they only care about getting re-elected and getting kickbacks from their sponsors.
    Look, there is no such thing as democracy, i.e. actual democracy in the real sense. There hasn't been. The only difference between the US electoral system and Stalinist Russia is that you get to vote on pre-picked candidates. That's it. The problem is much deeper than campaign finance reform or anything like that - it is systemic.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  9. #39
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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Or wake up and quit supporting either party in favor of supporting individual legislators who will actually get the job done.
    Right...cause they are sure out there doing that job right...arent they? So...what...you are a Tea Party supporter then? I didnt get that sense from you.

  10. #40
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    Re: CNN: Aides; 'Super Committee' likely to announce failure to reach debt deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Look, there is no such thing as democracy, i.e. actual democracy in the real sense. There hasn't been. The only difference between the US electoral system and Stalinist Russia is that you get to vote on pre-picked candidates. That's it. The problem is much deeper than campaign finance reform or anything like that - it is systemic.
    Well of course the problem is deeper than campaign finance reform. The US is a militaristic global empire that has no qualms about fulfilling its foreign policy objectives by any means necessary. I was just bringing up campaign finance reform as an example.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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