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Ohio Mom Charged in Death of 28-Pound Teen Daughter

DiAnna said:
This was, quite frankly, a conspiracy to murder. There was nothing "involuntary" about it. Four people knowingly conspired to starve a disabled child to death. Period.

The only things more shocking that this crime are some of the posts in this thread.
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agreed. the only thing more shocking than that 4 people would allow a child to starve is that there are actually people who would defend/excuse them
 
OscarB63 said:
agreed. the only thing more shocking than that 4 people would allow a child to starve is that there are actually people who would defend/excuse them
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I don't think people are looking to excuse or defend, but to understand. How can 4 people allow a child to be harmed so? I personally cannot wrap my head around it, other than to say they are evil. But the next question should be why would they allow these 4 people to handle such matters? What is wrong with the system if such neglect can be allowed and ignored?

It's not so simple as this is not an isolated case. This isn't the first time social workers failed to save a child in danger.
 
Tettsuo said:
I don't think people are looking to excuse or defend, but to understand. How can 4 people allow a child to be harmed so? I personally cannot wrap my head around it, other than to say they are evil. But the next question should be why would they allow these 4 people to handle such matters? What is wrong with the system if such neglect can be allowed and ignored?

It's not so simple as this is not an isolated case. This isn't the first time social workers failed to save a child in danger.
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it is the first time I have ever seen anyone argue, "well, if they paid them better they would've done a better job". as if this excuses the behavior of these social workers
 
OscarB63 said:
it is the first time I have ever seen anyone argue, "well, if they paid them better they would've done a better job". as if this excuses the behavior of these social workers
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I don't think that's the case at all. If anything, it would be, "if they paid social workers more, they would attract more people to the profession and avoid burnout due to overworked employees. They would also attract more quality workers. People more willing to that extra step, willing to put themselves at risk for the welfare of children."

You should not expect quality if you aren't willing to shell out the cash for it. Sure, you may luck out and get good deals, but that is a rare occasion.
 
Tettsuo said:
I don't think that's the case at all. If anything, it would be, "if they paid social workers more, they would attract more people to the profession and avoid burnout due to overworked employees. They would also attract more quality workers. People more willing to that extra step, willing to put themselves at risk for the welfare of children."

You should not expect quality if you aren't willing to shell out the cash for it. Sure, you may luck out and get good deals, but that is a rare occasion.
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The only excuse any employee could possibly have in this situation is that he/she wasn't able to visit because of a heavy caseload. That's it. Period. Compassion and dedication can't be bought. Blowing the whistle on bad situations is exactly what these people are entrusted to do. No amount of money can turn assholes into caring human beings.
 
MaggieD said:
The only excuse any employee could possibly have in this situation is that he/she wasn't able to visit because of a heavy caseload. That's it. Period. Compassion and dedication can't be bought. Blowing the whistle on bad situations is exactly what these people are entrusted to do. No amount of money can turn assholes into caring human beings.
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I don't disagree with you. An increase in salary wouldn't turn an evil person good. But just maybe a better salary would attract more good people and the state wouldn't have to choose between bad and worse people.
 
Tettsuo said:
I don't disagree with you. An increase in salary wouldn't turn an evil person good. But just maybe a better salary would attract more good people and the state wouldn't have to choose between bad and worse people.
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the average social worker in Alabama makes $57K a year. not bad for someone with a non-technical degree

in this case, the "supervisor" who was supposed to be checking up on the nurse every 30-60 days...had they lived in Alabama, they would be making $99K/yr that's more than many people with advanced degrees
 
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OscarB63 said:
the average social worker in Alabama makes $57K a year. not bad for someone with a non-technical degree

in this case, the "supervisor" who was supposed to be checking up on the nurse every 30-60 days...had they lived in Alabama, they would be making $99K/yr that's more than many people with advanced degrees
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I've read something that disputes the above numbers.

Social Worker Salary 2011|Average Social Worker Salary 2011

How to Determine Social Worker Salary?
There is no conventional wage for a social employee that is set formerly. There are plenty of aspects that decide on social worker salary, like the length of service, type of employment, experience, education level and location of work.

The length of Service—For those social workers who have labored for five to nine years, the yearly social worker salary may be at a range of Thirty-five to Forty-five thousand US dollars. While for those who have actually taken part in social work programs for ten to nineteen years, the salary comes at about Forty to Forty-five thousand US dollars.

Type of Employment—Suppose a social worker is admitted by non-profit companies, he or she will get a yearly income at Twenty-seven to Thirty-six thousand US dollars; suppose a worker for state enterprise or federal government agencies, the annual amount of pay is appropriately Twenty-eight to Forty-four thousand US dollars.

Experience—One’s experience is also taken into a social workers salary account. Don’t take granted that a fresh graduate will receive the same amount of salary as a social worker for several years. The long period of working experience, the more the salary is.

Location—The social worker salary differs from one state to another. Based on investigation, New York and California are likely to receive the highest social worker salary, ranging from between Twenty-seven to Fifty-five thousand US dollars.
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Social Worker Salary

Average Salary - $43,000

The social workers in this category provide social services as well as assistance to children and also their families to improve their living conditions as well and the children’s academic performance. Their duties range from helping single parents, and arranging adoptions to addressing issues such as teenage pregnancy and finding foster homes for neglected or abused children. The average social worker salary in this category is $43,000, though it’s dependent on the type of employer, level of education as well as the state where one is working.

Social Worker Salary Based on Education Level

The level of education also affects the level of income for social workers. There are several levels of qualifications, such as Master’s Degree in Social Work (MSW) and Doctoral Degree in Social Work (DSW or PHD). For those having just a Bachelor’s Degree, the average salary is $40,000. For social workers with a Master’s Degree (MSW), the average salary is $63,000 and the average social worker salary for Doctorate holders is $70,000.

Social Worker Salary Based on Location

From one state to another, social worker salary happens to be different. New York and California have the highest pay, starting from $58,000 onwards.

Social Worker Salary Based on Level of Experience and Position in an Organization

Just like any other career, experience plays a great role to determine the level of income for social workers. A graduate who is just starting his or her career cannot earn a higher salary than somebody who has been in the field for more than 10years. The average social worker salary for starters is $25,000, and then increases as ones years of experience increases. Also, a person’s position in an organization will determine their income. For example, a supervising social worker cannot earn the same as his or her juniors!
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FWIW, the avg social worker salary in Ohio is $50K. a supervisor makes $87K.

you can't excuse these 4 because of low salary.
 
OscarB63 said:
FWIW, the avg social worker salary in Ohio is $50K. a supervisor makes $87K.

you can't excuse these 4 because of low salary.
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The number of years it takes to get to that average is no joke. Social workers are starting at $24k. Do you think that'll attract the best candidates?

What makes you think I'm excusing them? Seriously... what about my previous posts leads you to say that?
 
A perspective from a retired child protective social worker: It can be extremely difficult to figure out if emaciation and loss of muscle mass in a severely disabled child is the result of the disability or neglect. If medical records indicate no anemia, electrolyte imbalance or other indicators of malnourishment exists, the finding regarding child neglect is normally 'unfounded report'. Normally CPS would order a complete physical to be done to assess the cause of an extremely underweight child. If this procedure was not followed or the caseworker failed to even do the assessment / investigation, hang him/her from the highest tree.

That said, all the nurses in this situation should lose both their license and freedom. They were in a unique position to know that this child was not receiving adequate nutrition and care. Also, their presence in the home on a daily basis would have influenced the CPS worker's assessment as medical personnel are required to report abuse and neglect. Same with children in daycare and school. An independent adult observer who is legally required to report abuse / neglect and sees the child regularly often makes the difference in the decision between removing a child from the home or leaving the child in the home and working to rectify borderline abuse/neglect. Removing children is detrimental to their emotional well-being and the decision is "will removing them do more harm than good?"

If the mother has normal intelligence, she too is culpable. The mother may have functional difficulties of her own that lead to her not questioning the nurses assessment that all was well with her child.
 
Tettsuo said:
The number of years it takes to get to that average is no joke. Social workers are starting at $24k. Do you think that'll attract the best candidates?

What makes you think I'm excusing them? Seriously... what about my previous posts leads you to say that?
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"you" in general, not You specifically. but you do seem to be arguing the side of those who actually did excuse them.


again, none of the 4 involved were entry level, brand news employees. they were not making $24K

and also, If I can find salary figures with a 2 second google search, surely someone looking into social work as a career could do the same.

bottom line, "you" cannot use the alleged "low" pay for social workers to use this lack of responsibilty
 
OscarB63 said:
"you" in general, not You specifically. but you do seem to be arguing the side of those who actually did excuse them.


again, none of the 4 involved were entry level, brand news employees. they were not making $24K

and also, If I can find salary figures with a 2 second google search, surely someone looking into social work as a career could do the same.

bottom line, "you" cannot use the alleged "low" pay for social workers to use this lack of responsibilty
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I'll also point out that these "salary averages" sites are historically inaccurate. Average salaries for public employees are not to be trusted.
 
MaggieD said:
I'll also point out that these "salary averages" sites are historically inaccurate. Average salaries for public employees are not to be trusted.
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If you want to be rich, be a doctor or lawyer...not a social worker ;)
 
OscarB63 said:
"you" in general, not You specifically. but you do seem to be arguing the side of those who actually did excuse them.


again, none of the 4 involved were entry level, brand news employees. they were not making $24K

and also, If I can find salary figures with a 2 second google search, surely someone looking into social work as a career could do the same.

bottom line, "you" cannot use the alleged "low" pay for social workers to use this lack of responsibilty
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Do you not think a starting salary of 24k would be a barrier for people considering becoming a social worker? People with at least a bachelor degree?

24k is darn near burger flipping money. You're not going to attract the best and brightest with a salary of 24k. You'll attract the "I don't really care", people.
 
Tettsuo said:
Do you not think a starting salary of 24k would be a barrier for people considering becoming a social worker? People with at least a bachelor degree?
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depends on where they live.

24k is darn near burger flipping money.
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not really. burger flipping money is ~$15K

You're not going to attract the best and brightest with a salary of 24k. You'll attract the "I don't really care", people.
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no offense to any on this forum, but you aren't going to attract the best and brightest to social work, no matter what it pays :shrug:
 
Aunt Spiker said:
That made me sick to my stomach. 28 lbs - my 5 year old weighs more than that. I'm nauseated. Wow. And people claim our government sticks its nose in our business too damn much but yet tragedies like this still happen.
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My 2 1/2 and 4 year old weigh more than that. One is 30 lbs, the other 35 lbs.
 
In Tennessee an introductory level CPS caseworker is paid $25,716.00 - $41,148.00 annually depending on education and experience. The job requires a bachelor level degree in a related field and 3 years of experience in a related field at minimum.

An entry level Food Stamp/Medicaid intake worker is paid $24,672.00 - $39,492.00 annually. that requires a bachelor degree in any field.

An entry level secretary is paid $22,704.00 - $36,348.00 annually. That requires a high school diploma and one year of experience.

Obviously, no one goes into protective services for the money. The job is very stressful and requires long hours that are often outside of the normal work day. The job is somewhat dangerous (people attack you when you take their kids away). It also requires a pretty substantial knowledge of laws and judicial procedures.
 
OscarB63 said:
"you" in general, not You specifically. but you do seem to be arguing the side of those who actually did excuse them.
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I assume you are referring to me (as are others). Can you please point to where I excused anyone? I think people are innocent until proven guilty and I think it's good to know where things go wrong.
 
whysoserious said:
I assume you are referring to me (as are others). Can you please point to where I excused anyone? I think people are innocent until proven guilty and I think it's good to know where things go wrong.
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yeah... "wah, wah, wah, they don't make enough money so it's understandable that they do a ****ty job" really helps understand what went wrong here :roll:
 
OscarB63 said:
yeah... "wah, wah, wah, they don't make enough money so it's understandable that they do a ****ty job" really helps understand what went wrong here :roll:
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Can I take that as, "No sir, I cannot find where you said that, as I was just being a troll and making up nonsense as I do on every other thread"? Thanks, Oscar.

*Edit: How it is that you think setting up straw men is some sort of impressive act is beyond me.
 
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whysoserious said:
Can I take that as, "No sir, I cannot find where you said that, as I was just being a troll and making up nonsense as I do on every other thread"? Thanks, Oscar.

*Edit: How it is that you think setting up straw men is some sort of impressive act is beyond me.
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did you, or did you not claim that it was understandable that people making low wages would not be as diligent about doing their job as those who made more $$$?
 
OscarB63 said:
did you, or did you not claim that it was understandable that people making low wages would not be as diligent about doing their job as those who made more $$$?
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Understandable or a known fact? As wages decline, workers are less happy and less reliable. It's a fact. Does that offend you?

Now where exactly did I say that negligence was ok or did not deserve punishment?
 
whysoserious said:
Understandable or a known fact? As wages decline, workers are less happy and less reliable. It's a fact. Does that offend you?

Now where exactly did I say that negligence was ok or did not deserve punishment?
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where did I say that you did?
 
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