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Thread: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    well, here's my question: is everything is relative, doesn't that mean that if one object is moving at 3/4 the speed of light in one direction, and another object is moving at 3/4 the speed of light in another...when they pass each other...won't it appear that they are both moving at 150% the speed of light?
    No. Time dilates. And space shortens in the direction of travel. Each observer believes itself to be standing still and sees the other as moving at whatever the appropriate speed is.
    This is very hard.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    So what you're saying is that physicists see no difference between "greater than c" and "infinity"?
    That is correct, at the present time. Once you've exceeded c, there is no other speed limit. The difference between traveling at 1.0001c and near-infinity would merely be a practical concern rather than a theoretical constraint. Unless, of course, there is a higher speed limit that hasn't yet been discovered.

    Okay, before we go on, let me clear something up with regards to the example you gave here:

    1) There's a series of lights strung throughout the galaxy
    2) For the next light to turn itself on the light before must turn on first and must do so within a certain interval.
    3) If we use a subluminal signal to activate the lights, people at subluminal speeds traveling beside the lights will see Light 2 turn on at the interval after Light 1 turns on.
    4) If we use an FTL signal to activate the lights, people at subluminal speeds traveling beside the lights will see Light 2 turn on before the interval after Light 1. However, those people will still see Light 1 turn on before Light 2.
    5) If we use an FTL singal to activate the lights, people at the same FTL speed traveling beside the lights will see Light 2 turn on at the interval after Light 1 turns on.

    Are these points right?
    If they are not right, which points aren't?
    For these points that aren't, why aren't they?
    1) Correct.

    2) I wasn't really thinking in terms of intervals. More like this: As soon as Light 1 receives its superluminous signal from me, it turns on and simultaneously sends out a superluminous signal of its own to Light 2. Some time later (from my frame of reference), Light 2 receives the superluminous signal from Light 1, then turns on and simultaneously sends out a superluminous signal of its own to Light 3, and so on.

    3) Correct. If the signals are subluminal and the travelers are subluminal, there will be no violation of causality. My Christmas decorations will appear normal to all observers, whether they are at rest relative to the lights or whether they are moving at near the speed of light.

    4) No. Light 1 turning on and Light 1 sending out its signal are simultaneous events, in this thought experiment. If the observer is traveling in the direction of the signal (i.e. from Light 1 to Light 2) near light speed, they will see Light 2 turn on before they see Light 1 turn on or send out its signal. It will appear to them as though Light 2 has turned on for no reason at all, which is a no-no according to our current understanding of causality.

    5) I'm actually not sure what would happen if the observer was traveling faster than light. Theoretically, they would be moving backwards in time if they are traveling faster than light...so what I *think* would happen is that they would observe things the same way as in (4), but unlike in (4) this would appear normal to them that effects should precede causes, since they are time traveling into the past.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-22-11 at 12:25 AM.
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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Isn't it generally accepted that those types of particles behave like both?
    Everything has both particle and wave properties.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    But we aren't talking about neutrinos traveling at .9999999999999c. These neutrinos (allegedly) exceeded the speed of light, which is substantially different. If you put enough 9s on that decimal, eventually that neutrino will be as massive as the entire universe. It cannot exceed the speed of light because an infinite mass would require an infinite force to accelerate it further.
    But how many 9s were in the experiment? If there weren't enough 9s there, the neutrino would still be puny in weight, much like a photon.

    And that's why I suspect it was able to jump the light barrier, because it never came close to the big relativistic mass you're suggesting.

    I'm thinking that it's energy level in its superluminal state was the same as it was in its subluminal state, and that it's warp barrier jump was merely just a consequence of the uncertainty principle (i. e. the neutrino's wavelike property showing itself). No change in energy was needed to make the jump.

    Of course, I'm only hypothesizing that the quantum nature of the universe is what causes superluminal velocities. No one really understands the results of the experiment yet.
    Last edited by solletica; 11-22-11 at 12:47 AM.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    (c) does not apply to the fabric of the universe itself. Galaxies at a distance of +4.7k/Mpc where z ≥1.7 are receding from us at superluminal velocities.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    60 billionths of a second .. don't blink.

    I wonder how fast those neutrinos would have traveled if they didn't have all that solid rock in their way!

    Or for that matter, how do they know the arriving neutrions were the leaving neutrinos?

    Just wait 'til they're able to analyze the zero-point field. Then we're in for some stellar good times.
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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    4) No. Light 1 turning on and Light 1 sending out its signal are simultaneous events, in this thought experiment. If the observer is traveling in the direction of the signal (i.e. from Light 1 to Light 2) near light speed, they will see Light 2 turn on before they see Light 1 turn on or send out its signal. It will appear to them as though Light 2 has turned on for no reason at all, which is a no-no according to our current understanding of causality.

    5) I'm actually not sure what would happen if the observer was traveling faster than light. Theoretically, they would be moving backwards in time if they are traveling faster than light...so what I *think* would happen is that they would observe things the same way as in (4), but unlike in (4) this would appear normal to them that effects should precede causes, since they are time traveling into the past.
    Okay. These two issues, especially what you said concerning point #5, is what makes me think about, for a lack of a better term, a 2nd dimension to time for those things that operate and observe at faster-than-light speeds.

    To those on the 1st dimension of time it would seem as those things operating at FTL are time-traveling. But for those at that 2nd dimension of time (which they do by traveling FTL) it would seem as those things also operating at FTL are operating linearly.

    So people in 2d time could time travel in 1d time and manipulate it, but those same people in 2d time could not time travel in 2d time and manipulate it.

    Does what I'm trying to say make rational sense even if it isn't scientifically verified?
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Warp speed!!



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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonxe View Post
    Warp speed!!
    One thing at a time. We'll start with FTL communication.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Well folks, I hate to say I told you so, but...oh who am I kidding, I love to say it.

    BREAKING NEWS: Error Undoes Faster-Than-Light Neutrino Results - ScienceInsider
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