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Thread: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by Boring Bob View Post
    This isn't a criticism, but a mere question to help me understand the concept. Is speed not relative? It seems to me that light itself would exceed C if the frame of reference were also moving in the opposite direction of that light, or at least would be measured to be higher. I always thought of C as a speed with the reference point being space itself (the grid points of the universe if you will), though maybe I'm missing some ideas from relativity. If the Earth were to move in the opposite direction of light through space, couldn't an observer then measure the speed of light to be higher than C relative to the earth?
    Nope, the idea of relativity is that there is no "absolute" reference point such as space itself...it's all relative. The view of absolute reference points was the prevailing mindset prior to Einstein (it was a concept known as "ether"), but Einstein conclusively proved that the ether didn't exist. This means that everyone measures the speed of light the same. If you're on earth and you measure a beam of light, it will appear to you to be traveling at C. If you're in a spaceship traveling at 50% the speed of light (relative to an observer on the earth) and you measure a beam of light, it will still appear to you to be traveling at C...regardless of whether it's traveling in the same direction as you or the opposite direction.

    This is possible because time itself isn't absolute. What feels like one second to someone in a spaceship traveling at near the speed of light, feels much longer to someone on earth. This is where the Twin Paradox comes from. Imagine that there are two twins in their 20s, and one builds a spaceship that travels near the speed of light. He sets out on a joyride for an hour...and when he comes back, many years have passed on earth and his brother is an old man! This is what would literally happen if someone travels at near the speed of light. So the reason that both brothers would measure a beam of light as traveling at the same speed, is because their units of measurement are fundamentally different. If they both measure how far it goes in one second, they'll get the same distance...but "one second" doesn't mean the same thing to both brothers.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-19-11 at 01:03 AM.
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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is possible because time itself isn't absolute. What feels like one second to someone in a spaceship traveling at near the speed of light, feels much longer to someone on earth. This is where the Twin Paradox comes from. Imagine that there are two twins in their 20s, and one builds a spaceship that travels near the speed of light. He sets out on a joyride for an hour...and when he comes back, many years have passed on earth and his brother is an old man! This is what would literally happen if someone travels at near the speed of light. So the reason that both brothers would measure a beam of light as traveling at the same speed, is because their units of measurement are fundamentally different. If they both measure how far it goes in one second, they'll get the same distance...but "one second" doesn't mean the same thing to both brothers.
    AHA! I did know this, but wasn't thinking of it at that moment. Thanks for reminding me.
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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    E=MC3

    E is expansion created by same polarities pushing apart perpendicularly. M is molecular elements in each molecule stable balanced within everything taking place between action and reaction, of C being contracting forces of opposites attract in each dividsion of the 4 dimensional spaces between gaseous, liquid, and mineral elements of the periodic table streming within perpetually balancing positions universally using Earth as one sole result example.

    Now rule of 72 where simple compounding interest is the most powerful physical force in the universe is because now everything universal is always here in the same instant working the same way.

    Why? things contracted far enough to reach a point they expand against the contracting forces in each state of stable matter of the periodic table within self contained positions self maintaining the results compounding the distace between inception and extinction with conception to conceiving of overlapping generations.

    With now always here light and electricity work the same way because they are 2 halves of the same whole but on two levels, plain magnetism and generated electromagnetism because everything in results is constantly moving.

    Again take time out of the perception. these neutrinos are just single charged particles that adapt to the last polarity that passed by them or the last electromagnetic field that placed a static charge.

    Since the universe is self contained think in hydraulic and pneumatic principals of saturation which means there is no place in the universe for nothing at all to exist. This shows that there was always something before shape and form functioned as it is functioning now as it will continue to do with or without the human species in any generation yet conceived.

    this effects reality's social identities not real genders every generation being male and female results of conception to conceiving between inception and extinction like every other species.
    Last edited by OneMale; 11-19-11 at 01:09 AM.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by OneMale View Post
    E=MC3

    E is expansion created by same polarities pushing apart perpendicularly. M is molecular elements in each molecule stable balanced within everything taking place between action and reaction, of C being contracting forces of opposites attract in each dividsion of the 4 dimensional spaces between gaseous, liquid, and mineral elements of the periodic table streming within perpetually balancing positions universally using Earth as one sole result example.

    Now rule of 72 where simple compounding interest is the most powerful physical force in the universe is because now everything universal is always here in the same instant working the same way.

    Why? things contracted far enough to reach a point they expand against the contracting forces in each state of stable matter of the periodic table within self contained positions self maintaining the results compounding the distace between inception and extinction with conception to conceiving of overlapping generations.

    With now always here light and electricity work the same way because they are 2 halves of the same whole but on two levels, plain magnetism and generated electromagnetism because everything in results is constantly moving.

    Again take time out of the perception. these neutrinos are just single charged particles that adapt to the last polarity that passed by them or the last electromagnetic field that placed a static charge.

    Since the universe is self contained think in hydraulic and pneumatic principals of saturation which means there is no place in the universe for nothing at all to exist. This shows that there was always something before shape and form functioned as it is functioning now as it will continue to do with or without the human species in any generation yet conceived.

    this effects reality's social identities not real genders every generation being male and female results of conception to conceiving between inception and extinction like every other species.
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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    For the geek inclined, here is a PDF of the CERN/LNGS submission to the Journal of High Energy Physics - 17 November 2011

    Located on the INSPIRE/arXiv High Energy Physics server

    http://inspirehep.net/record/928153/....pdf?version=2

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    I will remain on the skeptical side until everyone is done reviewing and rechecking the data, and further tests are done, and reviewed and checked. Which is going to be a long wait.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    The OPERA Collaboration
    T. Adam, N. Agafonova, A. Aleksandrov, O. Altinok, P. Alvarez Sanchez, A. Anokhina, S. Aoki, A. Ariga, T. Ariga, D. Autiero, A. Badertscher, A. Ben Dhahbi, A. Bertolin, C. Bozza, T. Brugičre, R. Brugnera, F. Brunet, G. Brunetti, S. Buontempo, B. Carlus, F. Cavanna, A. Cazes, L. Chaussard, M. Chernyavsky, V. Chiarella, A. Chukanov, G. Colosimo, M. Crespi, N. D'Ambrosio, G. De Lellis, M. De Serio, Y. Déclais, P. del Amo Sanchez, F. Di Capua, A. Di Crescenzo, D. Di Ferdinando, N. Di Marco, S. Dmitrievsky, M. Dracos, D. Duchesneau, S. Dusini, J. Ebert, I. Efthymiopoulos, O. Egorov, A. Ereditato, L. S. Esposito, J. Favier, T. Ferber, R. A. Fini, T. Fukuda, A. Garfagnini, G. Giacomelli, M. Giorgini, M. Giovannozzi, C. Girerd, J. Goldberg, C. Göllnitz, D. Golubkov, L. Goncharov, Y. Gornushkin, G. Grella, F. Grianti, E. Gschwendtner, C. Guerin, A. M. Guler, C. Gustavino, C. Hagner, K. Hamada, T. Hara, M. Hierholzer, A. Hollnagel, M. Ieva, H. Ishida, K. Ishiguro, K. Jakovcic, C. Jollet, M. Jones, F. Juget, M. Kamiscioglu, J. Kawada, S. H. Kim, M. Kimura, E. Kiritsis, N. Kitagawa, B. Klicek, J. Knuesel, K. Kodama, M. Komatsu, U. Kose, I. Kreslo, C. Lazzaro, J. Lenkeit, A. Ljubicic, A. Longhin, A. Malgin, G. Mandrioli, J. Marteau, T. Matsuo, N. Mauri, A. Mazzoni, E. Medinaceli, F. Meisel, A. Meregaglia, P. Migliozzi, S. Mikado, D. Missiaen, K. Morishima, U. Moser, M. T. Muciaccia, N. Naganawa, T. Naka, M. Nakamura, T. Nakano, Y. Nakatsuka, V. Nikitina, F. Nitti, S. Ogawa, N. Okateva, A. Olchevsky, O. Palamara, A. Paoloni, B. D. Park, I. G. Park, A. Pastore, L. Patrizii, E. Pennacchio, H. Pessard, C. Pistillo, N. Polukhina, M. Pozzato, K. Pretzl, F. Pupilli, R. Rescigno, F. Riguzzi, T. Roganova, H. Rokujo, G. Rosa, I. Rostovtseva, A. Rubbia, A. Russo, O. Sato, Y. Sato, J. Schuler, L. Scotto Lavina, J. Serrano, A. Sheshukov, H. Shibuya, G. Shoziyoev, S. Simone, M. Sioli, C. Sirignano, G. Sirri, J. S. Song, M. Spinetti, L. Stanco, N. Starkov, S. Stellacci, M. Stipcevic, T. Strauss, S. Takahashi, M. Tenti, F. Terranova, I. Tezuka, V. Tioukov, P. Tolun, N. T. Tran, S. Tufanli, P. Vilain, M. Vladimirov, L. Votano, J. -L. Vuilleumier, G. Wilquet, B. Wonsak, J. Wurtz, C. S. Yoon, J. Yoshida, Y. Zaitsev, S. Zemskova, A. Zghiche
    I simply can’t imagine the physicists/mathematicians above publishing two different/distinct/monumental superluminal-neutrino papers unless they were absolutely certain of the methodology/data/analysis.

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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    I simply can’t imagine the physicists/mathematicians above publishing two different/distinct/monumental superluminal-neutrino papers unless they were absolutely certain of the methodology/data/analysis.
    I can. Even many of the scientists involved have assumed that there is an error somewhere, but they published the paper because they can't figure it out on their own. Maybe someone else will. Unless they also can show some mechanism through which a massive particle can exceed the speed of light, I'm going to go with Occam's Razor here: both experiments are flawed and the two teams are likely overlooking the same thing.

    At this point I'm nowhere near convinced of this theory, or even doubtful of the prevailing view. That's going to take a lot longer and a lot more tests. For now, the smart money is still on them being wrong.

    http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/neutrinos.png
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    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-20-11 at 02:04 PM.
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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Time itself progresses at light speed. Light remains right at the event horizon. If neutrinos travel faster, then they are ahead of the event horizon...


    Is the speed neutrinos travel at a constant?
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    Re: Second experiment confirms neutrinos travel faster than light

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    ok, so lets assume the experiments are correct, and faster than the speed of light is possible.

    what are all the ramifications?
    The biggest one I know, is that it breaks the time barrier. Time is supposed to stand still at the exact speed of light, so if this particle travels faster than light, based on all we know about physics, the particle will arrive before it leaves. In other words, E=Mc2 is either flawed, or we have just found our first evidence of actual time travel.

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