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Thread: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

  1. #191
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I just looked up the information on WI's tax rating. In 2010, they were ranked 4th. I am not sure how much higher they should go before you are happy. But, IMO, there comes a point where it becomes a giant negative. again, IMO, I think being th ranked was already there. Apparently you disagree and would like to see it higher.
    "One of the most pernicious myths surrounding the Wisconsin budget showdown is Gov. Scott Walker's claim that the state is "broke," there is nothing to negotiate and the only solution is to mandate massive reductions in public employee compensation and to abolish their collective bargaining rights.

    This is nonsense. Wisconsin has not gone into the red because of excessively generous pay and benefits negotiated by unions for state and local employees. Our deficit has grown because the Great Recession blew a hole in the state budget, as it did in virtually every state in the country.

    Nor are excessively generous compensation packages for state employees holding back the recovery: Careful studies by the Economic Policy Institute as well as University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee economists Keith Bender and John Heywood show clearly that public-sector employees are less well-compensated than comparably educated and experienced private-sector workers in Wisconsin.

    Most assuredly, Wisconsin isn't "bankrupt" because public-sector unions here have the right to collective bargaining. There are 13 states with no collective bargaining rights for public workers; eight of them have larger budget shortfalls than does Wisconsin.
    In Texas, for example, a non-collective bargaining state whose low-tax, "open for business" economic policies are vaunted by the right, the state's deficit as a percentage of the total budget is over twice that of Wisconsin's.

    Clearly, Walker is using the relatively modest fiscal strain facing Wisconsin as a pretext to roll back basic worker rights and undermine public employee unions as a political force. Moreover, beyond this indefensible demonization of public employees as the primary cause of the state's budgetary shortfall, Walker's plan makes no macroeconomic sense."
    You heard it here first: Tax the rich and solve budget shortfall - JSOnline
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  2. #192
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post

    I don't think anyone has claimed that a state that makes the decision to save money by elimintating CB for PS unions will never go into deficit. The politicans in those states still have to control spending on other items - otherwise whatever savings they had will be gone.
    Interesting point, Buck; and one which I suggest you dwell upon with considerably more attention. In fact, you might want to take a good hard look at what our federal, state, and local governments pay for various goods and services from various private sector entities, and compare them to the going market rates of the very same goods and services. You might just discover that, in nearly all instances, the government is paying considerably, and quite inexplicably, more for such goods and services. In fact, it is the government's regular willingness to pay considerably more for such goods and services, as say.... healthcare... that artifically inflates the going market rate for such goods and services. Of course, the really sick thing is that such tales of the government paying $400.00 for $20.00 hammer have become more of a macabre comic cliche' than cause for serious outrage by the tax-paying citizenry.

    Therefore, Buck, it is my suggestion that if you want to excoriate blatant government waste of tax revenue, in its most extreme, this where you, and those like you, need to focus your attention, not on the modest incomes of public employees.

    The bottom line is that you can eliminate collective bargaining for public employees all you want---hell, even reduce them to the level of chattel slavery. In the long, it will not do a damn thing to cut back on government spending.

    Why?

    Because the fox in the hen house is not the middle-class public employee! It is the upper-class private sector businessman holding a pay-to-play sweetheart government contract, and he will simply steal that much more tax revenue!

  3. #193
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "One of the most pernicious myths surrounding the Wisconsin budget showdown is Gov. Scott Walker's claim that the state is "broke," there is nothing to negotiate and the only solution is to mandate massive reductions in public employee compensation and to abolish their collective bargaining rights.
    Do I need to go find an opinion piece to copy/paste in order to refute this? Not intersted.

    Simply, the state is bankrupt due to spending being too high for the amount of revenue they have coming in. A lot of the state and local governments spending is on public sector compensation. I think it's perfectly reasonable to cut the biggest portion of their spending. I think it's even more reasonable when there is evidence that even accounting for education levels, their total compensation is higher then that in the private sector. Just because this guy decided to trust (left leaning) EPI over other possible studies, doesn't add any weight in my mind.
    Last edited by buck; 11-23-11 at 11:58 PM.

  4. #194
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Interesting point, Buck; and one which I suggest you dwell upon with considerably more attention. In fact, you might want to take a good hard look at what our federal, state, and local governments pay for various goods and services from various private sector entities, and compare them to the going market rates of the very same goods and services. You might just discover that, in nearly all instances, the government is paying considerably, and quite inexplicably, more for such goods and services. In fact, it is the government's regular willingness to pay considerably more for such goods and services, as say.... healthcare... that artifically inflates the going market rate for such goods and services. Of course, the really sick thing is that such tales of the government paying $400.00 for $20.00 hammer have become more of a macabre comic cliche' than cause for serious outrage by the tax-paying citizenry.

    Therefore, Buck, it is my suggestion that if you want to excoriate blatant government waste of tax revenue, in its most extreme, this where you, and those like you, need to focus your attention, not on the modest incomes of public employees.

    The bottom line is that you can eliminate collective bargaining for public employees all you want---hell, even reduce them to the level of chattel slavery. In the long, it will not do a damn thing to cut back on government spending.

    Why?

    Because the fox in the hen house is not the middle-class public employee! It is the upper-class private sector businessman holding a pay-to-play sweetheart government contract, and he will simply steal that much more tax revenue!
    Yes, I am not in favor of that type of waste either. However, I think that doesn't occur as often as it used to. Or at least i've been led to believe that. Regardless, I seem to recall about 15-20 years ago, David Letterman had someone on his show and while I can't really remember the specifics, I know it had something to do with some largely expensive ashtray (I think) that the government bought. The government had all kinds of special requirements on the ash tray, which was the real reason it was so expensive.

    However, while I am against such waste, as a percentage of the budget and what the government will really save total is peanuts compared to other areas of government spending. So, that waste should be eliminated, but that doesn't mean that other spending isn't going to have to be reduced.

  5. #195
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    There are many options to handle the budget deficit. Walker chose the way that I happen to agree with. Cutting the spending on items that make up well over 50% of the total WI budget is not just political its a good idea and should help into the future. Yours and shepard's belief is merely a different opinion. Your opinion is hardly special. Just because SHep agrees with you doesn't make it more impressive.

    Take the facts and work from there. Walker didn't gin up a budget problem to get his changes through. The budget problem was real. The budget problem had to be dealt with. I assume you would agree that looking where the majority of state spending goes is a good idea when trying to get the budget under control.
    Except, as you know, payroll doesn't make up anywhere close to 50% of the state budget.

    But the bottom line is that the people of Wisconsin will decide. They didn't have a chance to decide when they elected Walker, because he somehow failed to mention that he intended to bust the public workers' unions (except of course the ones that supported his campaign) when he was running for office. During the election it wasn't important enough to merit a mention. After the election, apparently it's all important. This deceptive douchebag is going to get what he deserves.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You posted a blog post by some guy no one's ever heard of. Even accepting what he says as true, it does not justify Walkers' actions. Wisconsin, like most states, periodically faces budget shortfalls. In their case it's primarily the result of tax cuts enacted under the last Republican governor. The state has faced bigger shortfalls in the past and managed to get past them without destroying the unions. Clearly they could do the same again.

    Wisconsin's Political Crisis Is a Good Deal More Serious Than Its Fiscal Crisis | The Nation
    LOL you went to "The Nation" for information? Is that a site you hit a lot? Hard hitting, lefty propaganda, blatantly lefty propaganda. I think we can dismiss you as a serious person now. :bye:
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    LOL you went to "The Nation" for information? Is that a site you hit a lot? Hard hitting, lefty propaganda, blatantly lefty propaganda. I think we can dismiss you as a serious person now. :bye:
    As opposed to the virtually unheard of blogger you relied on above?

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You really don't read well do you?

    I posted a break down of the budget problems, you post wacky left wing masterbation material. It's obvious WHAT you are.
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    New poll shows majority support Walker recallKnock off the personal attacks.
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Do I need to go find an opinion piece to copy/paste in order to refute this? Not intersted.

    Simply, the state is bankrupt due to spending being too high for the amount of revenue they have coming in. A lot of the state and local governments spending is on public sector compensation. I think it's perfectly reasonable to cut the biggest portion of their spending. I think it's even more reasonable when there is evidence that even accounting for education levels, their total compensation is higher then that in the private sector. Just because this guy decided to trust (left leaning) EPI over other possible studies, doesn't add any weight in my mind.
    An opinion piece would hardly refute the studies I have already documented. Yeah, you've already stated your opinion, you think that tax cuts for the rich should have a higher priority than education, we've got it.

    I'll go with the experts I have documented.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    An opinion piece would hardly refute the studies I have already documented. Yeah, you've already stated your opinion, you think that tax cuts for the rich should have a higher priority than education, we've got it.

    I'll go with the experts I have documented.
    No, there are studies on the other side. You just aren't interested in them. There are also studies refuting the studies you posted. Again, you aren't interested. You are obviously only looking for evidence that supports your position. It's the only thing that makes sense, since when the most recent study came out it was in all the news and came to the conclusion that PS unions were over paid compared to the private sector counterparts even accounting for education. It's hardly opinion. It's simply things you want to ignore.

    However, it is opinion on which study, after reviewing them all, seems the most likely. But at least I reviewed them all, not just the ones that agree with my position.

    Lastly, yes. It is simply my opinion that raising taxes in WI, where they are already ranked 4th in tax burden, would not be a good idea.
    Last edited by buck; 11-24-11 at 11:39 AM.

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