Page 19 of 25 FirstFirst ... 91718192021 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 248

Thread: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

  1. #181
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And yet, you think we should try to make up the 30% of revenues lost because of the recession on the backs of our teachers.
    Yes, I believe that public sector unions have created a situation where they are taking more in tax revenue then they should. Wether its overpaid PS employee's salary and benefits (not just teachers), double dipping teachers or overpriced WEAC health plans that districts used to be forced to take due to collective bargaining against someone that is sympathetic to their cause. I also believe that while the recession is a signifcant contributor, it is not the only contributor to the budgetary concerns states are facing. Lasty, I would like to see lower taxes. One way to accomplish that is to get a hold on spending at the federal, state and local levels. The best way to do that is to take a look at the biggest chunk of spending.
    Last edited by buck; 11-23-11 at 08:52 PM.

  2. #182
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Yes, I believe that public sector unions have created a situation where they are taking more in tax revenue then they should. Wether its overpaid PS employee's salary and benefits (not just teachers), double dipping teachers or overpriced WEAC health plans that districts used to be forced to take due to collective bargaining against someone that is sympathetic to their cause. I also believe that while the recession is a signifcant contributor, it is not the only contributor to the budgetary concerns states are facing. Lasty, I would like to see lower taxes. One way to accomplish that is to get a hold on spending at the federal, state and local levels. The best way to do that is to take a look at the biggest chunk of spending.
    I have already demonstrated that studies show that public employees do not have it any better than private sector employees. And you expect to gain public support for short changing education to make up for the recession?

    The last part of your post I think gets closer to your real feelings, that you think education should be a lower spending priority than the tax cuts for the rich. Yet, you have no complaints over the middle class taxes being raised over the last 3o years so tax breaks could be provided to the super rich?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #183
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have already demonstrated that studies show that public employees do not have it any better than private sector employees. And you expect to gain public support for short changing education to make up for the recession?

    The last part of your post I think gets closer to your real feelings, that you think education should be a lower spending priority than the tax cuts for the rich. Yet, you have no complaints over the middle class taxes being raised over the last 3o years so tax breaks could be provided to the super rich?
    There are also studies that show they are paid more when taking all benefits and salary (even education required) into account. There are studies that directly contradict the EPI study that you previously posted and said that EPI failed to take certain things into account. There are studies that show that education degrees are much easier then other degrees to obtain. So, I don't know why you think the studies that provide evidence on your side are the only studies that matter.

    Yes, I think wasteful government spending should be cut and I find it quite wasteful the money that is spent on teachers and the unions in the public sector. The unions were screwing the state of WI for years with their WEAC health insurance plans. Only after collective bargaining was ended, did the unions finally lower the cost (providing same benefits) in order to compete with private insurance companies that were providing comparable benefits at lower premium.
    Last edited by buck; 11-23-11 at 09:14 PM.

  4. #184
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    There are also studies that show they are paid more when taking all benefits and salary (even education required) into account. There are studies that directly contradict the EPI study that you previously posted and said that EPI failed to take certain things into account. There are studies that show that education degrees are much easier then other degrees to obtain. So, I don't know why you think the studies that provide evidence on your side are the only studies that matter.
    I have documented 3 studies that show you are wrong. You have documented none to show you are correct.
    Yes, I think wasteful government spending should be cut and I find it quite wasteful the money that is spent on teachers and the unions in the public sector. The unions were screwing the state of WI for years with their WEAC health insurance plans. Only after collective bargaining was ended, did the unions finally lower the cost (providing same benefits) in order to compete with private insurance companies that were providing comparable benefits at lower premium.

    I also agree that wasteful government spending should be cut, but it is not in teachers total compensation for arguably one of the most important jobs in our country. I think we should reverse the trend of the last 30 years of cutting revenues to continue tax breaks for the super wealthy.

    Teachers negotiated in good faith for better benefits to make up for sub-standard pay. The rich (of which teachers are not included) possess 80% of the wealth in this country. You are barking up the wrong tree in going after the teachers.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #185
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have documented 3 studies that show you are wrong. You have documented none to show you are correct.
    You documented 2 studies. The Ezra article was commenting on the left leaning EPI group's study. You didn't have to post any, though. I knew of those studies. I also know of studies that show that the compensation difference is much greater. I would suspect that since you seem to be as interested in this topic as me, you would know of the studies that came to different conclusions. That you don't, seems to indicate that you are only looking for confirmation. If you are actually interested, feel free to investigate. I seem to recall that the far left HuffPo posted details on a bunch of the studies (covering both conclusions).

  6. #186
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    You documented 2 studies. The Ezra article was commenting on the left leaning EPI group's study. You didn't have to post any, though. I knew of those studies. I also know of studies that show that the compensation difference is much greater. I would suspect that since you seem to be as interested in this topic as me, you would know of the studies that came to different conclusions. That you don't, seems to indicate that you are only looking for confirmation. If you are actually interested, feel free to investigate. I seem to recall that the far left HuffPo posted details on a bunch of the studies (covering both conclusions).
    I provided documentation for my position. I have no interest in doing homework for someone that puts tax cuts for the wealthy as a higher priority than education.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #187
    Professor
    Sig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-29-13 @ 11:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,179

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    That was just state's spending. It does not include the local government's spending. the 40% figure is the local and state spending on PS union employees combined. You just want to ignore the 50% of the local's budget that goes to PS employees.
    First of all, the state cannot really be blamed for how municipal governments decide to spend their allotment of state funding.

    Secondly, while it may be true that some "rotten boroughs" are so corrupt that they spend 50% (or better) of their state funding and local tax revenue lining the pockets of a small circle of political cronies, this is certainly NOT true of all municipalities, nor even most of them.

    Thirdly , you are painting all government employees with the same brush, when you damn well know (or at least should know) how insidiously distortive and irresponsible it is to do so.

    Lastly, WHERE THE HELL DID YOU COME UP WITH 50% ACROSS THE BOARD????? Show us your math, if you don't mind.

  8. #188
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I provided documentation for my position. I have no interest in doing homework for someone that puts tax cuts for the wealthy as a higher priority than education.
    Then you apparently aren't interested in the topic. I am not asking you to do homework for me. I already know the studies. I also know that if you were really interested in the topic, you would want to know all sides. Apparently, as I suspected, you are only interested in confirmation of your own opinion.

  9. #189
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    First of all, the state cannot really be blamed for how municipal governments decide to spend their allotment of state funding.
    True. But the tax payer of the state still has to pay for it. And the states forward a lot of their budget to the local governments to help.

    Secondly, while it may be true that some "rotten boroughs" are so corrupt that they spend 50% (or better) of their state funding and local tax revenue lining the pockets of a small circle of political cronies, this is certainly NOT true of all municipalities, nor even most of them.
    That's the average. So, sure. Some spend smaller percentages others spend higher percentages. That's kind of how averages work.

    Lastly, WHERE THE HELL DID YOU COME UP WITH 50% ACROSS THE BOARD????? Show us your math, if you don't mind.
    I didn't come up with it. I did none of the math. I already provided links, 2 of them I believe. Basically, the state governments pay about 20% of their total budget in PS compensation. THe local governments pay some 50% of their total budgets in PS comp. The combined total is about 40% of local and state budgets go to PS comp.

  10. #190
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I provided documentation for my position. I have no interest in doing homework for someone that puts tax cuts for the wealthy as a higher priority than education.
    I just looked up the information on WI's tax rating. In 2010, they were ranked 4th. I am not sure how much higher they should go before you are happy. But, IMO, there comes a point where it becomes a giant negative. again, IMO, I think being th ranked was already there. Apparently you disagree and would like to see it higher.

Page 19 of 25 FirstFirst ... 91718192021 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •