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Thread: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    BTW, who has the day off on Thanksgiving but is still going to get paid? Be sure to thank the union movement for that.
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    BTW, who has the day off on Thanksgiving but is still going to get paid? Be sure to thank the union movement for that.
    Not to mention Saturday and Sunday, also known as work days prior to the labor movement.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Thanks for that blog post from some professor in Wisconsin. I could cite multiple blog posts that say just the opposite.

    Personally I like Fox News' take on this. Shep Smith Wisconsin Union Busting | No Budget Crisis | Koch | Mediaite
    You really don't read well do you?

    I posted a break down of the budget problems, you post wacky left wing masterbation material. It's obvious WHAT you are.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You really don't read well do you?

    I posted a break down of the budget problems, you post wacky left wing masterbation material. It's obvious WHAT you are.
    You posted a blog post by some guy no one's ever heard of. Even accepting what he says as true, it does not justify Walkers' actions. Wisconsin, like most states, periodically faces budget shortfalls. In their case it's primarily the result of tax cuts enacted under the last Republican governor. The state has faced bigger shortfalls in the past and managed to get past them without destroying the unions. Clearly they could do the same again.

    Wisconsin's Political Crisis Is a Good Deal More Serious Than Its Fiscal Crisis | The Nation

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You posted a blog post by some guy no one's ever heard of. Even accepting what he says as true, it does not justify Walkers' actions. Wisconsin, like most states, periodically faces budget shortfalls. In their case it's primarily the result of tax cuts enacted under the last Republican governor. The state has faced bigger shortfalls in the past and managed to get past them without destroying the unions. Clearly they could do the same again.

    Wisconsin's Political Crisis Is a Good Deal More Serious Than Its Fiscal Crisis | The Nation
    I'm sure Vichio can reply for himself, however, I just feel the need to point out that Lang, the writer of the memo that some erroneously took to show that WI was in surplus, himself indicated that they couldn't ignore the deficit and something had to be done to fix it. You can believe that Walker took the wrong approach to fix the 3.x billioin dollar deficit in the next fiscal period, but your opinion doesn't make other opinions wrong.

    But ignoring it would have meant turning away eligible Medicaid clients, which was not an option, Lang said.
    PolitiFact Wisconsin | Rachel Maddow says Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    I never claimed there wasn't a budget problem. My point is that Walker is taking advantage of the situation, which could be handled any number of ways, for purely political purposes. How clear is it? Even the guys on Fox News couldn't put lipstick on that pig.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I never claimed there wasn't a budget problem. My point is that Walker is taking advantage of the situation, which could be handled any number of ways, for purely political purposes. How clear is it? Even the guys on Fox News couldn't put lipstick on that pig.
    There are many options to handle the budget deficit. Walker chose the way that I happen to agree with. Cutting the spending on items that make up well over 50% of the total WI budget is not just political its a good idea and should help into the future. Yours and shepard's belief is merely a different opinion. Your opinion is hardly special. Just because SHep agrees with you doesn't make it more impressive.

    Take the facts and work from there. Walker didn't gin up a budget problem to get his changes through. The budget problem was real. The budget problem had to be dealt with. I assume you would agree that looking where the majority of state spending goes is a good idea when trying to get the budget under control.
    Last edited by buck; 11-23-11 at 06:28 PM.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Actually, yes. They looked at education when doing the study. The authors of one of the studies even found that teachers that leave their career and go to the private sector make much less in total compensation and people that leave the private sector to go into teaching make much more in total compensation. Salary was about equal. The largest difference was in benefits. It's one of the reasons that you have not seen a mass exodus of teachers (except for some retirements) to the private sector in WI.
    "However, even with better benefits calculated into the equation, a number of
    analyses have found that public employees receive less total compensation
    than their private sector peers."
    Powered by Google Docs

    "However, the data indicates that state and local government employees in Wisconsin are not overpaid. Comparisons controlling for education, experience, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, citizenship, and disability reveal that employees of both state and local governments in Wisconsin earn less than comparable private sector employees."
    Are Wisconsin Public Employees Over-compensated? | Economic Policy Institute

    "Consider this analysis the Economic Policy Institute conducted comparing total compensation -- that is to say, wages and health-care benefits and pensions -- among public and private workers in Wisconsin. To get an apples-to-apples comparison, the study's author controlled for experience, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, citizenship and disability, and then sorted the results by education. Here's what he got:

    "Wisconsin public-sector workers face an annual compensation penalty of 11%. Adjusting for the slightly fewer hours worked per week on average, these public workers still face a compensation penalty of 5% for choosing to work in the public sector."
    Ezra Klein - Are Wisconsin's state and local workers overpaid?
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "However, even with better benefits calculated into the equation, a number of
    analyses have found that public employees receive less total compensation
    than their private sector peers."
    www.eoionline.org/state_economy/fact_sheets/public-employee-compensation-mar11.pdf+Teachers+total+compensation+less+than+pr ivate+sector&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiFHDw1 AZ78Bz8a9NEVc3dbqS3_ArqFxj108yyw-QnKK-o-nXo6Z0qhRONsjQDeeuv1PUfPKRsIAvm7CzGRVvZa2jh3CL54rn RgTFh5sYLg0O32MtF2Gt3KEttDnWgEz8eYprCf&sig=AHIEtbS uYzLDJkE-tDU5lY2zj1_B-6L44Q]Powered by Google Docs[/url]

    "However, the data indicates that state and local government employees in Wisconsin are not overpaid. Comparisons controlling for education, experience, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, citizenship, and disability reveal that employees of both state and local governments in Wisconsin earn less than comparable private sector employees."
    Are Wisconsin Public Employees Over-compensated? | Economic Policy Institute

    "Consider this analysis the Economic Policy Institute conducted comparing total compensation -- that is to say, wages and health-care benefits and pensions -- among public and private workers in Wisconsin. To get an apples-to-apples comparison, the study's author controlled for experience, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, citizenship and disability, and then sorted the results by education. Here's what he got:

    "Wisconsin public-sector workers face an annual compensation penalty of 11%. Adjusting for the slightly fewer hours worked per week on average, these public workers still face a compensation penalty of 5% for choosing to work in the public sector."
    Ezra Klein - Are Wisconsin's state and local workers overpaid?
    I believe I indicated long ago, that there are studies showing both cases. There are even studies that show it's pretty darn equal. You have chosen which study you want to believe. I have chosen the ones I want to believe.

    It has been shown that people that leave public sector to go to private often take pay cuts, while the reverse is true when they go from private to public - not sure how that confirms that PS make less than private in your mind.

    It has been shown that a PS pension has much higher payouts (and often for longer time periods) then a private 401K and requires far less in contributions - due to being able to retire earlier.

    How do you think education degrees compare to degrees in the hard sciences in terms of difficulty and grading? There have been separte studies showing that it does not turn out to well for education degrees.

  10. #180
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I believe I indicated long ago, that there are studies showing both cases. There are even studies that show it's pretty darn equal.
    And yet, you think we should try to make up the 30% of revenues lost because of the recession on the backs of our teachers.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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