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Thread: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

  1. #101
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Well, since i've already provided links to two sites that confirm exactly what I have heard a while ago, I would say not at all. The state and local spending on PS unions is 44% of their budgets. All along I said 40%. I also claimed 50.0% of local budget is spendon PS unions. That turned out to be nearly spot on too.
    You provided links to two worthless sites and did not even comprehend what the articles said.

  2. #102
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    You provided links to two worthless sites and did not even comprehend what the articles said.
    Seems that your whole method of political debate is to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend the data doesn't exist or meet your oh so stringent standards so that you can continue to believe utter nonsense.

    Anyone with the least bit of an open mind wil see that both links clearly indicate that 44% of local/state budgets go to PS unions. You are free to provide any data that you have to disprove this. I'll wait.
    Last edited by buck; 11-20-11 at 12:23 PM.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    It's not unions that bankrupted the state. It was Governor Walker, who cut the revenue Wisconsin was bringing in to the bone. That might have made the Koch brothers happy, but it created the financial crisis. The public sector unions, by the way, agreed to every single concession that was asked of it, yet Walker still busted the unions.

    In addition, to show how unethical and smarmy your little attacks on me are (because I happen to support unions), 40% of union members voted Republican in 2008, but to you they are just dirty liberal hippies. You would rather just put people into boxes and label them, rather than try to figure out that things are a lot more complicated than cubbyholes and labels. To you, unions = dirty hippes, even though 40% of union members voted Republican. And your tactic of attacking the messenger, rather than replying in an intelligent manner to a post, explaining why you disagree, is not worthy of being called debate in the first place. It is just a personal attack, based on your distorted view of people, and really hearkens back to a time, during the Red Scare, when Joe McCarthy accused people of being Communists, even when they weren't. It's not debate, Nancy. It's disgusting.
    How was Walker able to do that in such a short time being in office?

    Further unions have no place in government employ. Period. Why because of a conflict of interest that goes on everyday in this country. Unions sell their vote for higher compensation and that is a fact that is wide spread across this country. And that fact is being more and more dealt with as states and counties and cities realize the agreements that were brokered in the past by liberal legislators to buy the union vote are unsustainable. You can try and eye wash this fact all you want but no one is listening anymore.

    I have no problem with unions in the private sector as they are forced to compete with the non-union work force. But there is no competition under government employ.
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  4. #104
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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I can't decide if you are doing this on purpose just to be difficult, or you really don't understand.
    The state has their own PS employees, and pay 20% of their spending in PS employee comp.
    The local governments have their own PS employees and pay 55% of their budget in PS employee comp
    Combined, 44% of the state's and local's spending is on PS employees.

    If you are looking at how much PS unions are costing the state, you need to look at expenses from both a state and local level. You can't just take the state's spending on their PS employees and completely ignore the local's spending on their employees.

    This had nothing to do with debt reduction with scott walker, the unions agreed to cuts in pay and benefits...he was purely union busting by ending collective bargaining...and thats what this is all about

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Seems that your whole method of political debate is to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend the data doesn't exist or meet your oh so stringent standards so that you can continue to believe utter nonsense.

    Anyone with the least bit of an open mind wil see that both links clearly indicate that 44% of local/state budgets go to PS unions. You are free to provide any data that you have to disprove this. I'll wait.
    THEY DO NOT!!!! THIS IS THE POINT!!!!

    The very gist of the your first article (your first article, your own source of information!!!) was that the total spending on public employee wages and salaries is more accurately assessed at 17.7%, as opposed to the 8.5% assessment of Pocan.

    Do you think if you keep repeating the same misread erroneous crap, over and over and over again, that it will somehow become true? It won't. Now, be a man and recant.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    This had nothing to do with debt reduction with scott walker, the unions agreed to cuts in pay and benefits...he was purely union busting by ending collective bargaining...and thats what this is all about
    There is simply a difference of opinion here. I believe that the unions were just playing politics with their supposed agreement to contribute more to pensions/health care (as evidenced by the number of unions that refused to reopen their contract to provide more contributions) leading to teacher layoffs in the districts that rushed through new contracts prior to Act 10. Higher contributions would have just been a short term fix as the union's supposed bargaining oponent gives out more salary and other concessions to unions putting them right back in tough spot.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    THEY DO NOT!!!! THIS IS THE POINT!!!!

    The very gist of the your first article (your first article, your own source of information!!!) was that the total spending on public employee wages and salaries is more accurately assessed at 17.7%, as opposed to the 8.5% assessment of Pocan.

    Do you think if you keep repeating the same misread erroneous crap, over and over and over again, that it will somehow become true? It won't. Now, be a man and recant.
    That was just state's spending. It does not include the local government's spending. the 40% figure is the local and state spending on PS union employees combined. You just want to ignore the 50% of the local's budget that goes to PS employees.
    Last edited by buck; 11-20-11 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    There is simply a difference of opinion here. I believe that the unions were just playing politics with their supposed agreement to contribute more to pensions/health care (as evidenced by the number of unions that refused to reopen their contract to provide more contributions) leading to teacher layoffs in the districts that rushed through new contracts prior to Act 10. Higher contributions would have just been a short term fix as the union's supposed bargaining oponent gives out more salary and other concessions to unions putting them right back in tough spot.
    I cant speak on that buck...because I dont know enough about it to be honest...Im not from wisc and im going by what I saw on the news and read at various places...that the unions agreed to concessions and walker at first agreed and then it got ugly when he took collective bargaining....you have to admit that taking collective bargaining was just a move to bust the unions to benefit the GOP

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I cant speak on that buck...because I dont know enough about it to be honest...Im not from wisc and im going by what I saw on the news and read at various places...that the unions agreed to concessions and walker at first agreed and then it got ugly when he took collective bargaining....you have to admit that taking collective bargaining was just a move to bust the unions to benefit the GOP
    I think that it was more then that, but we simply disagree. We both looked at the same facts and came to a different conclusion. No problem with that.

    Edit: BTW, here is a link on the MPS refusing to reopen their contract to provide contributions, instead taking layoffs. It's obviously a biased link, but the main thing I wanted to show was that they did refuse despite the claims of union leadership tat they would.

    http://www.publicschoolspending.com/...acher-layoffs/
    Last edited by buck; 11-20-11 at 01:20 PM.

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    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I think that it was more then that, but we simply disagree. We both looked at the same facts and came to a different conclusion. No problem with that.

    Edit: BTW, here is a link on the MPS refusing to reopen their contract to provide contributions, instead taking layoffs. It's obviously a biased link, but the main thing I wanted to show was that they did refuse despite the claims of union leadership tat they would.


    Milwaukee school board and teachers union


    That certainly is a biased site lol.....well its in a recall type situation now...have to see how it all turns out

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