Page 10 of 25 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 248

Thread: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

  1. #91
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Seriously? Your own quote says, without qualification, "Some 20 percent of state spending is for employee compensation."

    Walker is the governor -- not the mayor of cheesehead springs.
    I can't decide if you are doing this on purpose just to be difficult, or you really don't understand.
    The state has their own PS employees, and pay 20% of their spending in PS employee comp.
    The local governments have their own PS employees and pay 55% of their budget in PS employee comp
    Combined, 44% of the state's and local's spending is on PS employees.

    If you are looking at how much PS unions are costing the state, you need to look at expenses from both a state and local level. You can't just take the state's spending on their PS employees and completely ignore the local's spending on their employees.

  2. #92
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    The contributions would have been a short term savings. Ending the collective bargaining of the unions, where they were negotiating with people friendly to their cause (not the tax payers), was to gain long term savings. Without ending CB, the unions would have gained it all back pretty quickly. Wether it be increased wages, reduced contributions, whatever. In order to set things right for the long term, it was necessary.
    Or not.

    To me the nail in the coffin of this argument is that there are many states that do no allow public employees to bargain collectively, and on the whole they are in no better shape than those that do. Obviously banning collective bargaining is no panacea.

    Again, this is pure politics on Walker's part: an attempt to leverage the recession-caused shortfall to win long-term political gain by f*cking the unions. He goes on about how Wisconsin is broke and he really has no choice ... but he's signed over $100 million in tax cuts so far. Hmm.

  3. #93
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Or not.

    To me the nail in the coffin of this argument is that there are many states that do no allow public employees to bargain collectively, and on the whole they are in no better shape than those that do. Obviously banning collective bargaining is no panacea.

    As I am sure you are aware, there can be a lot of reasons a state is in bad shape beyond just collective barganing. However, the state that has made the change most recently, Indiana, is doing just great with their budget.

    But, if you would like to post a link showing which states do not have PS union collective barganing and what their deficits look like compared to state's that do, i'm more then happy to take a look.

  4. #94
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Care to explain what you are trying to say in your little rant here?
    It's obvious, you put PS Unions over the Tax Payer. You put their stranglehold on the tax payer, above the needs, the wants, and the desire of the state. You once claimed to be a "Barry Goldwater" conservative, that was you, in a nut shell. Yet since this whole PS Union bit, where I pointed out how anti-Union Mr Goldwater was, going so far as to refuse to allow them in his own businesses... suddenly you've dropped all pretense of "Conservative" thought or theory and instead embrace the unconscionable position that PS Workers should have a right to Unionize. Even FDR saw the danger of such a collusion, even the AFL-CIO used to realize, before greed of $$ and political power trumped principle, the danger, the corruption that would ensue.

    Gov Walker has saved towns, cities and counties as well as getting the state on a good footing, but the Union power grab to get back their POLITICAL and MONETARY influence, threatens to undo the changes.

    You support bankrupting states in favor of Union power.

    Thus, you are laughably, "conservative"
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  5. #95
    Professor
    Sig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-29-13 @ 11:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,179

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post

    I picked that up a while ago. Sometimes you just accumulate knoweldge, and don't exactly recall what the source was. I live right across the border (5 minutes) from WI, so I hear a lot about what's occuring up there on TV and radio and news papers.
    In other words. You don't really know what you're talking about, and are on this forum making ridiculous assertions conceivably based upon little more than gossip. Isn't that right?

    When a local government (dem or republican) has to fix a budget, think of the first things they do on the spending side. They request furlough days or layoffs of PS union employees. It must be an awfully big slice of their spending if that is almost always the fall back position -such as just happened in Cook County (Chicago) yesterday. 775 employees laid off to meet budget. Just read it today, so I can provide a link.
    This is your line of reasoning? You have got to be kidding me. Has it ever occurred to you that the reason the state reneges on its contracts with public employee unions or lays off its employees full stop is because it is the most expedient way of making emergency cuts in its budget, compared to, say... renegeing on a sweetheart contract it has with some entity in the private sector?

  6. #96
    Professor
    Sig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-29-13 @ 11:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,179

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's obvious, you put PS Unions over the Tax Payer. You put their stranglehold on the tax payer, above the needs, the wants, and the desire of the state. You once claimed to be a "Barry Goldwater" conservative, that was you, in a nut shell. Yet since this whole PS Union bit, where I pointed out how anti-Union Mr Goldwater was, going so far as to refuse to allow them in his own businesses... suddenly you've dropped all pretense of "Conservative" thought or theory and instead embrace the unconscionable position that PS Workers should have a right to Unionize. Even FDR saw the danger of such a collusion, even the AFL-CIO used to realize, before greed of $$ and political power trumped principle, the danger, the corruption that would ensue.

    Gov Walker has saved towns, cities and counties as well as getting the state on a good footing, but the Union power grab to get back their POLITICAL and MONETARY influence, threatens to undo the changes.

    You support bankrupting states in favor of Union power.

    Thus, you are laughably, "conservative"
    It is obvious that you, sir, have degenerated into a knee-jerk pseudo-conservative who has been spoon-fed so much nabob horseshate that you are no longer able to think straight.

    The worst, most wasteful and insidious corruption lies in the pay-to-play sweetheart contracts which the federal, state, and local governments make with upper-class nabobs in the private sector in exchange for their political patronage. If you want to grow up to be a real conservative someday, this is where your prove yourself. Going after middle-class public employees as a diversionary tactic, purposefully designed and implemented by the very upper-class nabobs who are actually looting the treasury, does not make you a conservative. It just makes you a fool on a fool's errand.

  7. #97
    Slayer of the DP Newsbot
    danarhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    39,756

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's obvious, you put PS Unions over the Tax Payer. You put their stranglehold on the tax payer, above the needs, the wants, and the desire of the state. You once claimed to be a "Barry Goldwater" conservative, that was you, in a nut shell. Yet since this whole PS Union bit, where I pointed out how anti-Union Mr Goldwater was, going so far as to refuse to allow them in his own businesses... suddenly you've dropped all pretense of "Conservative" thought or theory and instead embrace the unconscionable position that PS Workers should have a right to Unionize. Even FDR saw the danger of such a collusion, even the AFL-CIO used to realize, before greed of $$ and political power trumped principle, the danger, the corruption that would ensue.

    Gov Walker has saved towns, cities and counties as well as getting the state on a good footing, but the Union power grab to get back their POLITICAL and MONETARY influence, threatens to undo the changes.

    You support bankrupting states in favor of Union power.

    Thus, you are laughably, "conservative"
    It's not unions that bankrupted the state. It was Governor Walker, who cut the revenue Wisconsin was bringing in to the bone. That might have made the Koch brothers happy, but it created the financial crisis. The public sector unions, by the way, agreed to every single concession that was asked of it, yet Walker still busted the unions.

    In addition, to show how unethical and smarmy your little attacks on me are (because I happen to support unions), 40% of union members voted Republican in 2008, but to you they are just dirty liberal hippies. You would rather just put people into boxes and label them, rather than try to figure out that things are a lot more complicated than cubbyholes and labels. To you, unions = dirty hippes, even though 40% of union members voted Republican. And your tactic of attacking the messenger, rather than replying in an intelligent manner to a post, explaining why you disagree, is not worthy of being called debate in the first place. It is just a personal attack, based on your distorted view of people, and really hearkens back to a time, during the Red Scare, when Joe McCarthy accused people of being Communists, even when they weren't. It's not debate, Nancy. It's disgusting.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  8. #98
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    In other words. You don't really know what you're talking about, and are on this forum making ridiculous assertions conceivably based upon little more than gossip. Isn't that right?
    Well, since i've already provided links to two sites that confirm exactly what I have heard a while ago, I would say not at all. The state and local spending on PS unions is 44% of their budgets. All along I said 40%. I also claimed 50.0% of local budget is spendon PS unions. That turned out to be nearly spot on too.
    Last edited by buck; 11-20-11 at 12:14 PM.

  9. #99
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    It's not unions that bankrupted the state. It was Governor Walker, who cut the revenue Wisconsin was bringing in to the bone. That might have made the Koch brothers happy, but it created the financial crisis. The public sector unions, by the way, agreed to every single concession that was asked of it, yet Walker still busted the unions.
    I don't really care if you support Walker or not, but at least base your argument against Walker on facts. Wisconsin was 3.x billion dollars in the hole even before Walker took office. Doyle's admin projected the deficit. Walker inherited it. His couple of hundred million dollars in tax breaks didn't cause it. Walker feels, and I happen to agree, that just taking concessions wouldn't have solved the issue long term.

  10. #100
    Professor
    Sig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-29-13 @ 11:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,179

    Re: New poll shows majority support Walker recall

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I can not vouch for this source. It is not the source I got the infomation from originally and there is info in here that I disagree with. Additionally, it has "Christian" in the name, so prepare yourself for that, it could be painful for one such as yourself.
    Lastly, this seems to be talking about state spending overall, and is not WI specific.

    Is public employee compensation really causing Wisconsin's budget woes? - CSMonitor.com
    This article is utter nonsense. The Christian Science Monitor is clearly pulling its data out of their empty medicine cabinet and praying that it's true.

    Here's one of the more humorous excerpts:

    "What else do states spend money on? Payments for social services/public welfare represent 41 percent of state spending (which does include some salaries and wages) but within this category payments to vendors (largely Medicaid payments to hospitals, nursing homes, and the like) make up 34 percent."

    What's missing from this picture (besides a reference) that exposes the fact that these figures are misleading, at best, and have been manufactured out of thin air, at worst?

Page 10 of 25 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •