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Occupy Wall Street: New York police clearing protest

Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

Not much has been covered. Plenty of people have chimed in with opinion, which is fine; but data it is not. Isolated incidents do not make for aggregated behavior either. In the end, I think some of you decided right from go what sort of people were at OWS and have been on a crusade to dismiss it ever since. Your own rhetoric points to this. So it seems like insult and dismissal are all you're left with here. K, noted.


Nonsense. Like I said much has been posted already. I suggest you take the time to refresh yourself. You seem computer savvy, I am confident you can find the reports should you want to.

j-mac
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

Nonsense. Like I said much has been posted already. I suggest you take the time to refresh yourself. You seem computer savvy, I am confident you can find the reports should you want to.

j-mac

So you're not going to back up what you claim, but rather demand that I be the one to do the research. K, noted.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

So you're not going to back up what you claim, but rather demand that I be the one to do the research. K, noted.

Anything I post has, now pay attention here, BEEN POSTED ALREADY.....Goose chases are not my thing, and are usually a tactic from those losing the debate....K? Note that.

j-mac
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

Anything I post has, now pay attention here, BEEN POSTED ALREADY.....Goose chases are not my thing, and are usually a tactic from those losing the debate....K? Note that.

j-mac

I do note it. You refuse to back your claims with any measurement, instead claim that I should have read the multitude of other threads and waded through retarded number of pages looking for your phantom evidence. But you made the claim, and as such my original comment stands till such time as YOU produce evidence. Note that.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

I do note it. You refuse to back your claims with any measurement, instead claim that I should have read the multitude of other threads and waded through retarded number of pages looking for your phantom evidence. But you made the claim, and as such my original comment stands till such time as YOU produce evidence. Note that.


You are posting on the other thread that is similar, where evidence is posted. for you to say what you did here is dishonest.....

j-mac
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

You are posting on the other thread that is similar, where evidence is posted. for you to say what you did here is dishonest.....

j-mac

I commented on that evidence in that thread as well. Whom is being dishonest now?
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

I commented on that evidence in that thread as well. Whom is being dishonest now?

You are. You made it sound as though no evidence is given, I said there was and provided it yet again in another thread about the same subject, and you, being dishonest wrote what you did here while responding in the other thread.

j-mac
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

You are. You made it sound as though no evidence is given, I said there was and provided it yet again in another thread about the same subject, and you, being dishonest wrote what you did here while responding in the other thread.

j-mac

You gave one personal testimony, to which I said that it opens up the realm of possibilities. I asked for corroborating evidence to back the claim. One persons testimony is the testimony of one person.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

You gave one personal testimony, to which I said that it opens up the realm of possibilities. I asked for corroborating evidence to back the claim. One persons testimony is the testimony of one person.


Actually the girl on O'Donnell's show is the corroborating evidence, the Police were the actual people making that statement, and the girl backed up what they said. That the protesters started pelting them with bottles and rocks.

Does that clear it up for you?

j-mac
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

Actually the girl on O'Donnell's show is the corroborating evidence, the Police were the actual people making that statement, and the girl backed up what they said. That the protesters started pelting them with bottles and rocks.

Does that clear it up for you?

j-mac

Government claiming that government did not act improperly? Not going to cut it. Government must PROVE they acted rightfully. The Government is restricted, not the People.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

Government claiming that government did not act improperly? Not going to cut it. Government must PROVE they acted rightfully. The Government is restricted, not the People.

Are they restricted from upholding the law as it exists at the moment, because some crack pots want to misinterpret the constitution?

j-mac
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

Are they restricted from upholding the law as it exists at the moment, because some crack pots want to misinterpret the constitution?

j-mac

The government is in general restricted in the ways it can employ force against our rights and liberties.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

The government is in general restricted in the ways it can employ force against our rights and liberties.

That is not what I asked. Are the police restricted from enforcing the law because some people want to assemble and break laws?

j-mac
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

The order does not prevent protesters from gathering in the park, but says their First Amendment rights do not include remaining there, "along with their tents, structures, generators, and other installations to the exclusion of the owner's reasonable rights and duties to maintain Zuccotti Park."
This makes perfect sense to me.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

The park has been re-opened.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

That is not what I asked. Are the police restricted from enforcing the law because some people want to assemble and break laws?

j-mac

The police are part of government, the government is restricted in the forms and degrees of force it may use against our rights.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

OWS Protesters Lose Bid to Return to NYC Park

“The movants have not demonstrated that they have a First Amendment right to remain in Zuccotti Park along with their tents, structures, generators and other installations to the exclusion of the owners' reasonable rights and duties to maintain Zuccotti Park,” New York State Supreme Court Justice Michael Stallman wrote in a ruling issued today.

“The court recognized the importance of balancing public safety with the protesters’ claim that building tents constitutes speech,” said Sheryl Neufeld, senior counsel with the New York City Law Department, in an e-mailed statement. “Conditions at the park had deteriorated to the point that serious concerns about crime, fire hazards and public health needed to be addressed.”

Neufeld said protesters will be allowed to return without tents, tarps and sleeping bags. The park was reopened late this afternoon.

The judge ruled that the owner of the park has the “right to adopt reasonable rules that permit it to maintain a clean, safe, publicly accessible space.” He added that “even protected speech isn’t equally permissible in all places and at all times.”
“The unsafe and unsanitary conditions and the substantial threat to public safety as determined by the police and fire departments” will return if the protesters take over the park as before, Cas Holloway, the city’s deputy mayor for operations, said in court papers.

“The whole purpose of the plaza is for it to be available to the general public for their use,” Spinola said. “If a park is no longer available because of one particular group, then there would be a violation taking place.”

OWS Protesters Lose Bid to Return to NYC Park - Bloomberg

Couldn't agree more with this ruling. Protest all you want, but do it within the confines of the law and don't threaten the health and safety of the surrounding public. The notion of tents being "an expression of speech protected under the First Amendment" is absurd to me and a complete copout to try and circumvent the rules set forth by the city and the owners.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

Are they restricted from upholding the law as it exists at the moment, because some crack pots want to misinterpret the constitution?

j-mac

When the Civil Rights movement was at it's peak, police used similar tactics to disperse those protesters (trespassing, curfews, disrupting peace, etc). Yes the police have a right to uphold the law, but they are not ABSOLUTELY RIGHT all the time.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

The police are part of government, the government is restricted in the forms and degrees of force it may use against our rights.
Really? By what is the government restricted?

.
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

Really? By what is the government restricted?

.

By the Constitution, and a higher court agreed. Today, the National Lawyers Guild went to court and got an injunction against the police department. The occupiers are back.

BTW, contrast the police in New York with the Police in Houston, Texas, which is legendary for knocking heads, when they need to be knocked. The Houston Police Department went to Tranquility Park, where occupy Houston is camping out. They inspected the premises, found some violations, told the occupiers what they needed to do to correct the violations, and wished them well.

People up north love to badmouth Texas, but here in Houston, the police are setting a much better example than the ones in New York. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, 'ya damn Yankees. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

The police are part of government, the government is restricted in the forms and degrees of force it may use against our rights.

Ok, do the protesters rights supersede the rights of others not involved in the protest to go about their day, get to work, conduct business, live in their homes un-accosted, etc?

j-mac
 
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