Page 21 of 22 FirstFirst ... 1119202122 LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 217

Thread: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

  1. #201
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian_style View Post
    I don't get it? what does someone paying to camp at a park have to do with people assembling, did OWS forget to pay the poor tax on the use of the constitution?
    It isn't necessary to be paying for all those spots. Some places allow you to camp for free, but you still have a limit on how long you can be camping in those areas so that those places are free for others to use at least for a small amount of time and so that they can be properly cleaned up, if necessary.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #202
    Educator barbarian_style's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Existing between 2 entities of darkness
    Last Seen
    02-01-14 @ 03:31 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    761

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    On the contrary, there is the right to limit how long a person/group of people are allowed to use public land. It is a fairness issue.
    It isn't anthing about this thing called the right to assemble? There is no constitutional limit on this, unless your referring to the work around and call it a safety issue and kick everyone out. We could use the voucher system and handout a 1 lifetime voucher to everyone for 2 weeks of protesting then you will have to use your money to speak, because I was told money talks.

    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...of_rights.html

    Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    This brings us to these mayors that are going to their goon squads to clear them out, instead of their state and federal government to change shtuff so they will just go away...

    I will say that its a good thing that OWS is a peaceful movement because I seen the videos of the cops in Oakland PD trying to incite a riots.
    Last edited by barbarian_style; 11-17-11 at 12:30 AM.

  3. #203
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian_style View Post
    It isn't is all about this thing called the right to assemble? There is no constitutional limit on this, unless your referring to the work around and call it a safety issue and kick everyone out. We could use the voucher system and handout a 1 lifetime voucher to everyone for 2 weeks of protesting then you will have to use your money to speak, because I was told money talks.
    I have no problem with people protesting whatever, for however long they want, but people do not have a right to usurp public property in order to make their protests more convenient for them. That is not a part of the right to protest. And that is what the camping is about. The camping is not an actual part of the protests. The camping is merely a means of making the protest convenient for those protesters. If they wish to protest whatever, fine. But they must understand that other people should have access to those places as well and they should also understand that people living in any place without proper plumbing are going to cause sanitation issues. And large groups of people are bound to cause trash and security issues after a certain amount of time (usually a couple of weeks is all it takes, if not sooner).

    It is completely reasonable to have limits on people for safety and/or sanitation reasons. And they are not being told to stop protesting or even limited on how long they can actually protest, but on how long they can camp in public areas within a city as a convenient way to protest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #204
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Where does it say that protests rights trump fairness? I'm pretty sure that is not a part of the Constitution. The right to protest is not the end all, be all right.
    Show me where in the Constitution that it talks about fairness when it comes to occupying public land. If you can't find it then the right to protest definetely trumps "fairness".

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It can certainly clash with other people's rights, and if there is a viable alternative that still allows the protesters to protest, do so legally, and allow others a little fairness, then that is what should happen. And I have already suggested viable alternatives in other posts that the protesters could partake of besides usurping public land that is really not in connection to their purported protests.
    Show me where peacebly protesting can interfere with other peoples rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is up to the courts, ultimately, to decide, but they have upheld protests limitations in the past, at least to a point, so I really don't see them overturning time and other limitations on public access to parks just for protesters. It is possible, just not likely since many of those limitations are in place for good reasons.
    I would imagine that any limitations that SCOTUS has upheld were those involving violence and private property. I've never heard of them upholding a limit that restricts the amount of time a protest may last at a specific spot.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  5. #205
    Educator barbarian_style's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Existing between 2 entities of darkness
    Last Seen
    02-01-14 @ 03:31 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    761

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I have no problem with people protesting whatever, for however long they want, but people do not have a right to usurp public property in order to make their protests more convenient for them. That is not a part of the right to protest. And that is what the camping is about. The camping is not an actual part of the protests.
    Maybe the acronym is starting to loose what the protesters are doing, they are "occupying" wall street. which if they leave the protest would be essentially over, being that they would not no longer be an occupier and it will return to what it was before they occupied " Wall Street" and would continue to be just what they are protesting.

  6. #206
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Show me where in the Constitution that it talks about fairness when it comes to occupying public land. If you can't find it then the right to protest definetely trumps "fairness".

    Show me where peacebly protesting can interfere with other peoples rights.

    I would imagine that any limitations that SCOTUS has upheld were those involving violence and private property. I've never heard of them upholding a limit that restricts the amount of time a protest may last at a specific spot.
    The camping is not a part of the protests. It is simply a convenience thing for them. It is to make their protests against the corporations/government/both more convenient.

    Hell, in at least some cases, they were not being asked to move their stuff permanently, but rather temporarily so that people could come and clean up after them (here in San Diego), and they still acted like assholes and came back to yell at the cops for enforcing that cleanup time. And they are not having their actual protests disrupted except when they start breaking laws like entering government buildings (or trying to) after hours or attacking other people (whether cops or citizens) or trespassing/damaging public property. Many places are giving these protesters a lot of freedom, but at least some of those protesters are trying to take more.

    And many of the protesters are not simply doing as MLK or other civil rights protesters of the past and accepting that they are breaking laws and they should be working through the courts to change those laws, not harassing the police for enforcing them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #207
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Just a note here but I have read that the park that the OWS protestors are using in Oakland is actually privately owned by BNY Mellon and his spokesmen has stated that they (BNY Mellon) is not blocking any access.

    So....what right did the police have of forcing those that are camping there out?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  8. #208
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The camping is not a part of the protests. It is simply a convenience thing for them. It is to make their protests against the corporations/government/both more convenient.
    This is your opinion. OWS'ers that are there have stated that it is a part of thier protest.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #209
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian_style View Post
    Maybe the acronym is starting to loose what the protesters are doing, they are "occupying" wall street. which if they leave the protest would be essentially over, being that they would not no longer be an occupier and it will return to what it was before they occupied " Wall Street" and would continue to be just what they are protesting.
    There are plenty of ways to occupy a place without setting up camp. They could always use shifts and/or scheduling to ensure they always have a significant presence in those areas.

    Rights are not without limits. Unfortunately, our rights can easily clash with other people's rights and that is where a compromise must be made.

    I asked this question before in a poll and got very little answer. Do you think it is okay for the police to arrest protesters who break any laws/ordinances as part of their protests? Where would you draw the line? How long do you allow people who are protesting nudity laws to walk naked in the streets as a protest? How long do you allow people protesting fire ordinances (no fires in parks) to have controlled, reasonable fires in a park as a protest? When should the police be called in to arrest someone who is protesting drug laws by smoking/using/shooting up on the steps of city hall? What if they are simply protesting no smoking in public places laws by having a smoke-in in a specific public area? How long do you allow it to go on before you stop it? Or maybe it is a protest against drinking alcohol on public property? Generally, most of these things can be done without harming others but are laws within many cities/areas that at least some people disagree with but many others support.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #210
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    This is your opinion. OWS'ers that are there have stated that it is a part of thier protest.
    Even it is, they are still violating reasonable city ordinances/laws by doing so. If they wish to fight those ordinances/laws, they should expect to do so in court, not on the streets with the police.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

Page 21 of 22 FirstFirst ... 1119202122 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •