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Thread: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

  1. #191
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So, if folks are willing to go that far we should let them?

    Is that what you are saying?
    Depends on wht you mean by that far. Just staying in the park? Sure. let them. Maybe help them be clearer. Stay close. Worry more about safety than minor things.

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    While that may be true, we're really discussing something that is reasonable here.
    The law says you can't camp in city parks, that makes sense as that is not there intended purpose.
    Why not camp at a park? I've done it before. Its a great place to take kids camping when you live in a city and don't have the money to spend to go out into the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes but a picnic /= camping for a couple of months.
    A picnic is a temporary use, camping for time on end, is an indefinite use.
    The latter is unreasonable.
    The picnic was just an example. You could have just as easily used "camping" in its place. The point was that parks are based on a first come first serve basis. It matters not how long a person stays in that park. They were there first, they get to use it for as long as they like. You don't have a right to limit how much they can use it.
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more and video @: Police clear out Oakland protest camp - Americas - Al Jazeera EnglishA crime scene? Are you kidding me? A crime scene? How is democracy in action a crime scene? I hope the protesters re group and move to another location and camp or come back real soon.

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Why not camp at a park? I've done it before. Its a great place to take kids camping when you live in a city and don't have the money to spend to go out into the country.

    The picnic was just an example. You could have just as easily used "camping" in its place. The point was that parks are based on a first come first serve basis. It matters not how long a person stays in that park. They were there first, they get to use it for as long as they like. You don't have a right to limit how much they can use it.
    On the contrary, there is the right to limit how long a person/group of people are allowed to use public land. It is a fairness issue.
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    On the contrary, there is the right to limit how long a person/group of people are allowed to use public land. It is a fairness issue.
    Life isn't about fairness. Its about rights. If life was fair then there would be no reason for the OWS, Teaparty, Republican, Democrats, <insert whatever party here> to even exist. There would not be alot of things in this world if it was all about fairness.
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Life isn't about fairness. Its about rights. If life was fair then there would be no reason for the OWS, Teaparty, Republican, Democrats, <insert whatever party here> to even exist. There would not be alot of things in this world if it was all about fairness.
    yea but 'Rights' are all about fairness. Hence "Equal Rights" . "right to medical care" And "right to a fair trial" both demand fairness. Property rights demand that the owner to be recognized as the deed holder which is only fair. But fairness is not the end all definition of rights. Many other factors make up our Rights as citizens.

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Life isn't about fairness. Its about rights. If life was fair then there would be no reason for the OWS, Teaparty, Republican, Democrats, <insert whatever party here> to even exist. There would not be alot of things in this world if it was all about fairness.
    But municipalities/localities try to be fair to as many people as they can when it comes to allowing use of public lands. This includes time limits for camping out on those public lands. I found many states that have time limits for camping in public/state parks that are generally around 7 - 14 consecutive days or 14 days out of a month total. The time limits are in place for a variety of reasons I'm sure, but include fairness to other citizens and ensuring officials have a chance to clean up that site.
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But municipalities/localities try to be fair to as many people as they can when it comes to allowing use of public lands. This includes time limits for camping out on those public lands. I found many states that have time limits for camping in public/state parks that are generally around 7 - 14 consecutive days or 14 days out of a month total. The time limits are in place for a variety of reasons I'm sure, but include fairness to other citizens and ensuring officials have a chance to clean up that site.
    Yes and those "fairness" laws are usually local/state laws. The right to protest trumps both those laws and "fairness". Where would we be now if MLK had not held protests that most whites at the time considered "unfair". After all...those protests disrupted buisness, traffic, made a mess...all kinds of things.

    I really wonder if there is anyone now adays that truely understands what it means to protest and all that it entails.
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But municipalities/localities try to be fair to as many people as they can when it comes to allowing use of public lands. This includes time limits for camping out on those public lands. I found many states that have time limits for camping in public/state parks that are generally around 7 - 14 consecutive days or 14 days out of a month total. The time limits are in place for a variety of reasons I'm sure, but include fairness to other citizens and ensuring officials have a chance to clean up that site.
    I don't get it? what does someone paying to camp at a park have to do with people assembling, did OWS forget to pay the poor tax on the use of the constitution?

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yes and those "fairness" laws are usually local/state laws. The right to protest trumps both those laws and "fairness". Where would we be now if MLK had not held protests that most whites at the time considered "unfair". After all...those protests disrupted buisness, traffic, made a mess...all kinds of things.

    I really wonder if there is anyone now adays that truely understands what it means to protest and all that it entails.
    Where does it say that protests rights trump fairness? I'm pretty sure that is not a part of the Constitution. The right to protest is not the end all, be all right.

    It can certainly clash with other people's rights, and if there is a viable alternative that still allows the protesters to protest, do so legally, and allow others a little fairness, then that is what should happen. And I have already suggested viable alternatives in other posts that the protesters could partake of besides usurping public land that is really not in connection to their purported protests.

    It is up to the courts, ultimately, to decide, but they have upheld protests limitations in the past, at least to a point, so I really don't see them overturning time and other limitations on public access to parks just for protesters. It is possible, just not likely since many of those limitations are in place for good reasons.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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