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Thread: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

  1. #171
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    How long would you leave such people alone? Would you allow it to get to the point where their presence is causing your grass to die and your yard to smell like a sewer? Would you let it go beyond that if the group still refuses to actually cleanup after themselves and/or move? When exactly would you call the cops to move those people?
    If Boo were being honest, and if he is a homeowner, he wouldn't leave them alone. I simply do not believe him. But how can he say anything else and hold his position?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Do the people have the rights and liberties of squatting on public land?
    Ummm....actually yeah. I do it every time I go camping. Which is legal.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  3. #173
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If Boo were being honest, and if he is a homeowner, he wouldn't leave them alone. I simply do not believe him. But how can he say anything else and hold his position?
    I am a home owner, and it would depend on the reason for it. But, I can see a case where I would leave it lay. There are very few reasons why some might take up staying in my yard. For those reasons I can think of, I would be slow to escualte to violence. I have an acre of land, an old, old house, and a barn that should fall down any day now. More trees than grass, and a good size burn pile. It's a home and not a show place.

    Anyway, the point is, most things have a reasoning behind it. I can slow diown my actions based on the reasoning.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ah, you don't believe eh? Well, who are you? We live in a civil society where we have elected representatives to enact laws on our behalf. One of those laws is that in order to hold a rally you must in most municipalities in this country you must obtain a permit. You don't like it, well, tough, you can't just ignore the law when it suits you.

    Your right to be free, does not supersede my right to be free from you.

    j-mac
    And we also have a Constitution which trumps every law in the land. Last I heard the right to peaceably assemble was in the Constitution. I've never heard of requireing permits to do so was in the Constitution. Could you point it out for me please?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  5. #175
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    See, most people do not agree with this. Most would consider such a encampment to be wrong and harmful to them, whether the people doing it actually intend to be harmful or not. And it is reasonable to make that assumption in many cases.

    I'll give you a good example of why you can never tell what may be a threat or not, and why it could be reasonable for some level of violence to be desirable to none.

    The USS Cole. They were being approached by a small boat that ended up being loaded with explosives. Firing on that small boat by the watches who witnessed it come in would have been against the rules of engagement at the time. If those watches had fired upon that boat and destroyed it, killing its crew, we would not have lost 17 sailors. Those rules of engagement have changed since then, and that is a good thing. It is likely to lessen the chance of having another incident similar to what happened in that Yemen port.

    I know that they are not the same thing and I am certainly not suggesting that these protesters be killed by authorities. But it is not unreasonable to expect people to be weary and try take actions to defuse a situation that has a high potential to cause incidents/unsafe conditions for them or others before the situation gets out of hand or gets people killed.
    Yes, the USS Cole is a very different situation. And I have no trouble with being weary. I only ask that reason and calmer heads rule the day. The threshold for esculating to violence should be high IMHO. If you're worried about health issue, help out. Have ahelpful presence, which would also allow you to be there to control things a bit. Be seen as part of the solution and not the problem.

    As I mentioned earlier, I have ehard reports of an area reporting this type of appraoch, and as best I can tell, it has been far more successful. It has even led to less turn out, less confrontation, and a better feeling by all concerned. It is true that I have not been there to see it myself, but it certainly sounds better than what I'm hearing here, which I have also not seen in person.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #176
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not really.
    If you let some people get away with breaking the law, then others may jump on the bandwagon.
    Not a very good image to project.

    They had their chance to camp and protest, they were asked to leave and they should of acted reasonable and left.



    See your acting as if the police were the problem.
    The police don't come into this, until someone breaks the law.

    They shouldn't compromise with people breaking the law, that's not their job.
    I once read an article that stated that there are so many active laws in the US today that there isn't a single adult person in the US that hasn't broken the law.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #177
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I think you missed the keyword....

    C A M P
    Remember that the next time you use the word "squat", "squatting", or "squatter", or some other variation of that word.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  8. #178
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    And what happens when you have 2 or more people wanting to use that same space of public land?
    First come, first serve?

    That would also be the same as silencing the 2nd person's right to assemble, at least from what you've said here
    Actually when it comes to public parks and such, yes, first come first served is the basis. You cannot enter any park and tell a person having a picnic that they have to leave. You have to find somewhere else to go.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #179
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So... Do you only have the right to protest if you get 100% of the public or something?
    Nope but you have to share public spaces, with other members of the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Is there an event?
    Most likely there is, at some point or another.
    If the OWS don't clear out, the event could be moved, costing the city more revenue.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Can you show me that law?
    Typically, the law allows someone to camp out, in wooded parks for a maximum of two weeks.
    You then have to move, although this is for forest areas and not city parks.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  10. #180
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, the USS Cole is a very different situation. And I have no trouble with being weary. I only ask that reason and calmer heads rule the day. The threshold for esculating to violence should be high IMHO. If you're worried about health issue, help out. Have ahelpful presence, which would also allow you to be there to control things a bit. Be seen as part of the solution and not the problem.

    As I mentioned earlier, I have ehard reports of an area reporting this type of appraoch, and as best I can tell, it has been far more successful. It has even led to less turn out, less confrontation, and a better feeling by all concerned. It is true that I have not been there to see it myself, but it certainly sounds better than what I'm hearing here, which I have also not seen in person.
    Why should I help them clean up their mess if I don't want them there to begin with? I am not going to allow anyone to walk all over me and expect me to clean up after them and continually clean up after them for being on my property. That is beyond being reasonable, that is foolish.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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