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Thread: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    They are not the entirety of the public.
    So... Do you only have the right to protest if you get 100% of the public or something?

    Will they leave if another event was scheduled, ahead of their protest, where the whole park will be in use, by the event planners?
    Is there an event?

    Get this, parks are for everyone to use, for a limited time.
    It's the only fair way to share public spaces, that's why them camping there is wrong.
    Can you show me that law?


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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    They are excluding people?
    How are they excluding people?
    Can other people in those cities have a quiet day in the park at all while they are busy protesting/camping in that park? Why not? Why should other citizens of that area not be allowed to partake in the actual intended purposes of the park for 2+ months just because a small group wishes to protest against something that has zero to do with the park?

    And what about the extra police/security that the city has to provide specifically for these protesters? Why should they be entitled to basically usurp a good portion of police time for their continued presence in these areas? One of the major reasons for parks being closed at night is because most cities cannot afford to provide police/security for those parks throughout the night. The city then becomes responsible for things that happen within the park, whether it be crimes against people or basic vandalism. That costs the city money.

    Having rights means understanding that sometimes your rights come into conflict with other people's rights. This is when a compromise is made.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So by yelling and chanting that means they are not peaceful?
    By yelling at the cops, it becomes a non-peaceful protest. By throwing things at the cops or anyone else, it becomes a non-peaceful protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What rights are the infringing upon?
    We do not live in vacuums. Public land is supposed to be rightfully owned by all people, not just those who wish to protest or camp out there.

    And public services are paid for by all citizens within an area. Those services should not be cut short so that people can protest something in a way that causes problems. And camping out for months at a time on public lands is going to cause problems. It happens. People are people.
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Can you show me that law?
    I haven't seen the law, but the Mayor seems to think it exists. He probably knows more about it then I do.

    The law that created Zuccotti Park required that it be open for the public to enjoy for passive recreation 24 hours a day," Bloomberg said. "Ever since the occupation began, that law has not been complied with, as the park has been taken over by protesters, making it unavailable to anyone else."

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Can other people in those cities have a quiet day in the park at all while they are busy protesting/camping in that park?Why not? Why should other citizens of that area not be allowed to partake in the actual intended purposes of the park for 2+ months just because a small group wishes to protest against something that has zero to do with the park?
    No...
    So that means people cannot peacefully assemble there?




    And what about the extra police/security that the city has to provide specifically for these protesters? Why should they be entitled to basically usurp a good portion of police time for their continued presence in these areas? One of the major reasons for parks being closed at night is because most cities cannot afford to provide police/security for those parks throughout the night. The city then becomes responsible for things that happen within the park, whether it be crimes against people or basic vandalism. That costs the city money.
    Sounds like that the local officials are afraid....
    But why? Maybe cuz thats their job...




    Having rights means understanding that sometimes your rights come into conflict with other people's rights. This is when a compromise is made.
    How is this conflicting?



    By yelling at the cops, it becomes a non-peaceful protest. By throwing things at the cops or anyone else, it becomes a non-peaceful protest.
    I never stated yelling at the police.
    I means by saying that chanting like a poular chant of "power to the people" or "this is what democracy looks like"




    We do not live in vacuums. Public land is supposed to be rightfully owned by all people, not just those who wish to protest or camp out there.
    They are camping their for a reason. A way to assemble and to protest...
    Remember all the people in Egypt camping?


    And public services are paid for by all citizens within an area. Those services should not be cut short so that people can protest something in a way that causes problems. And camping out for months at a time on public lands is going to cause problems. It happens. People are people.
    So let me get this straight: "You have the right to protest as long as id doesnt mean we have to bring in extra services"? Is that correct?


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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    • Businesses shut down.
    • Employees in area inconvenienced and intimidated
    • Taxpayers rights enfringed upon.
    • Oakland resources stressed beyond breaking.
    • Cost to Oakland taxpayers over $2.4 million.
    • Property destruction.
    • Injuries
    • At least one death
    • Rapes

    Other than that short list, nothing.
    Rape is a serious crime. Please arrest those who do that. How much of the distruction came as result of trying to force them out? How did the person die? It matters.

    What I asked was for the consequences of letting them stay. Not in letting them destroy things or commit major crimes. Would you agre there is a difference?

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Rape is a serious crime. Please arrest those who do that. How much of the distruction came as result of trying to force them out? How did the person die? It matters.

    What I asked was for the consequences of letting them stay. Not in letting them destroy things or commit major crimes. Would you agre there is a difference?
    So what do you see as "the consequences of letting them stay?" None? I made my list. All of these things have happened in spades as a direct result of these people having a slumber party. All of these things are easily foreseen and direct consequences of allowing people to camp out in a space that doesn't allow camping. Period.
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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So what do you see as "the consequences of letting them stay?" None? I made my list. All of these things have happened in spades as a direct result of these people having a slumber party. All of these things are easily foreseen and direct consequences of allowing people to camp out in a space that doesn't allow camping. Period.
    I give you credit for the list. Two I think fall under laws that need to be enforced. Police arrest someone for rape or destroying property, I won't argue.

    But as I know people can and have stayed without those things happening, and without any significant issues to business, I think it is a leap to suggest merely by being there such things will always happen.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I give you credit for the list. Two I think fall under laws that need to be enforced. Police arrest someone for rape or destroying property, I won't argue.

    But as I know people can and have stayed without those things happening, and without any significant issues to business, I think it is a leap to suggest merely by being there such things will always happen.
    Its not a leap when these things are happening.

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Its not a leap when these things are happening.
    Maybe. But were they happening there? Were the police trying to stop those things? Or did they create much of that by esculating what didn't need to be esculated?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Police clear out Oakland protest camp

    We put the police in a position to decide when things should be escalated. The fact is these people are violating the law. Whether or not you agree with what their purpose is I don't see why it's so hard to understand that they are going about things the wrong way.

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