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Thread: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Waterboarding is not torture. It is a technique that I don't think the military should use on combatants who fall under US law or the Geneva conventions. However, the Geneva Conventions do not apply to non-uniformed enemy combatants except in the case where they are members of a peaceful nation/organization that has been quickly invaded and they have not had a chance to form an army/militia with rank and identifying uniform. That is not the case with Al Qaida. Human decency is what guides our treatment of captured terrorists, not any laws or conventions. And I do not believe that pouring water on an illegal terrorist's face in order to save thousands of innocent lives is beyond the scope of American human decency. It certainly is not beyond precedent. In WWII we would hang non-uniformed enemy combatants with nothing more than a military trial.
    Water-boarding / torture is perfect for making somebody say something they wouldn't normally say. Ask John McCain about his experience in the Hanoi Hilton.


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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    I like how waterboarding is not torture... it is actually quite a pleasant technique of aggressive facewashing used to clean the dirty beards of the durka durkas.

    No, really, it's not torture, yet how does it work to produce the magic results we see cited in this thread?

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao, no it didn't. Oh wait, I know what you're going to do now, you're going to cite the half quote of "enhanced interrogation techniques" by Leon Panetta as proof? Good luck with that.
    I think the quote you cite is the half quote. During the same MSNBC interview Panetta acknowledge that the methods included waterboarding. That would be the other half.

    CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid - TODAY News - TODAY.com

    The Video. Intelligence gathering part occurs around 8:30.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Water-boarding / torture is perfect for making somebody say something they wouldn't normally say. Ask John McCain about his experience in the Hanoi Hilton.
    So, if you don't torture a prisoner, they will tell you the truth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    I'm sick of these waterboarding and torture threads. The end result is either conservatives are too ashamed to admit they approved of pointless torture or they just want to torture.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, something watered down with no real fear of it going too far. That makes it very different.

    That's not how my Marine buddy described his experience with it.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    That's not how my Marine buddy described his experience with it.
    When he gets waterboarded for extend periods around the clock for a month or two or tries to kill himself by smashing his skull against the wall, I might think your marine buddy has an idea.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    That's not how my Marine buddy described his experience with it.
    I agree, the fear would still be there because you could logically think, "What if he makes a mistake?"
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    That's not how my Marine buddy described his experience with it.
    Doesn't matter. Not saying there is NO fear, only that it is less than if you were in enemy hands. Like I said, those who created the program and those who run it both say it is not the same. And they say it for the same reasons I have stated.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is your opinion, doesn't make it true. Sorry.
    Torture, interrogation and needing information is not new. Much is written on it. Torture, including waterboarding, is much better at getting a confession, as even the innocent will confess, but not good at getting real information. the litature says you're every bit as likely to get misinformation. And we have an example of this. Remember al Libi? He gave us all kinds of misinformation that we used to sell the Iraq war. It was true. But, hell, we used it. Misinformation led us down the wrong path, and this is what is most comon with torture.


    I am sure you can prove your claim here? Give it a go.

    j-mac
    I have before j. You might book mark it this time.

    An in-depth look at the torture practices of the United States in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, focusing on an innocent taxi driver in Afghanistan who was tortured and killed in 2002.

    Taxi to the Dark Side (2007) - IMDb

    In March 2006, the CBS News program, "60 Minutes" investigated the deaths of two Afghan prisoners, including Dilawar, revealing that authorization for the abuse came from the "very top of the United States government". "60 Minutes" correspondent Scott Pelley interviewed retired Army Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, who was appointed chief of staff by Secretary of State Colin Powell in 2002, during George W. Bush’s first administration. Willie V. Brand, one of the soldiers convicted of assault and maiming in the deaths of the two prisoners, and Brand’s commanding officer, Capt. Christopher Beiring, were also featured in the program.

    Dilawar (torture victim) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Even as the young Afghan man was dying before them, his American jailers continued to torment him.

    The prisoner, a slight, 22-year-old taxi driver known only as Dilawar, was hauled from his cell at the detention center in Bagram, Afghanistan, at around 2 a.m. to answer questions about a rocket attack on an American base. When he arrived in the interrogation room, an interpreter who was present said, his legs were bouncing uncontrollably in the plastic chair and his hands were numb. He had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the previous four days.

    (snip)

    He also added a detail that had been overlooked in the investigative file. By the time Mr. Dilawar was taken into his final interrogations, he said, "most of us were convinced that the detainee was innocent."

    In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths - New York Times

    Torture Tactics: Interview with Alex Gibney . NOW on PBS

    http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/2007...n-afghanistan/
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 11-14-11 at 09:26 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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