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Thread: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    then why all the crying about it?
    Who's crying? Is this another attempt to avoid the issue?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's flippent and nonresponsive. The fact is we do regularly get information without torture.
    You're right and torture shouldn't be the first option, however it shouldn't ruled out as an option, either.


    In fact, if you follow the events in Iraq, you will find we got a lot more intell once we stopped with the rough stuff. More accurate intel.
    And, you can back that up, yes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Who's crying? Is this another attempt to avoid the issue?
    this entire thread is one big cry fest over it.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not really true. The girl scouts will not be the Green Bay Packers in a Football game. GB would have to defeat themselves.
    In a nose-to-nose footbal game, you're right. But, if the girl scouts gathered enough information about the players they would be facing, they could find certain weaknesses that could allow them to develope a winning strategy.





    Nonsense. You dismiss it that because you're too lazy to look it up, to read, and to understand the issue. Much is written on torture, many books, including studies by the military and the CIA.
    How about you show us the info. I would love to see you support your onw comments for a change.

    And no one is talking about being nice. That's another lazy effort on your part. Make fun of the position so as to not have to do the work of understadning it and debating it.
    I think the, "treat'em with kid gloves", folks don't know what they're talking about, to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #115
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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Means less concerning an enemy that can't possibily beat you. But you miss the point. The war on terrorism is much like the wars on poverty, drugs and crime. Very different from being at war with a nation.




    As I said, it's very good for confession. And, yes, many because they didn't really now better likely thought it worked. But because it has been around so long, we have been able to study it. That's why today we KNOW that we're more likely to get misinformation, unreliable information, and that other efforts are more effective. And this is true regardless of the intel being raw or actionable.
    Exactly what methods have been proven to be more effective?

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're right and torture shouldn't be the first option, however it shouldn't ruled out as an option, either.
    Why not? it's ineffective and immoral. We certainly have demonized other countries who have done it, and we don't want to give excuse for others to do so to our people. By excusing it, we make it acceptable not only for lawless terrorist, but other nations, who can simply point to us if we become involved in some conflict. Rule of law has a place. And protecting the innocnet should be of concern.

    And, you can back that up, yes?
    Of course.

    The Gamble: General Petraeus and the ... - Thomas E. Ricks - Google Books

    It would be clearer if you read the entire book.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    then why all the crying about it?
    You should probably ask someone who is shedding tears.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Drowning means dying from asphyxiation brought on from water in the lungs. So I am not sure why you chose to use the phrase "nothing more"--waterboarding is nothing more than a simulation of killing someone. IDK. It just sound like a weird place for the phrase, imho. ymmv.

    In the US anyway, the definition of torture includes psychological torture.

    Daniel Pearl would have preferred to come home unharmed to his wife and unborn child over being water boarded. He also may have preferred chocolate ice cream to vanilla ice cream.

    Is there a point in your post somewhere? Just curious.

    In a round-about way, my point was to refer to the monster wielding the knife that sliced Pearl's throat to the bone.

    If we needed info from that animal, I would certainly agree to pouring water on his face.

  9. #119
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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Of course waterboarding is torture. Denying that is totally idiotic.

    Instead, people should argue that torture is permissible in rare instances. For example, denying that torture is appropriate when you know that a suspect has information about an imminent threat to the lives of Americans, and non-torture tactics have proved unavailing, is equally idiotic.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: 'Waterboarding is torture,' says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Of course waterboarding is torture. Denying that is totally idiotic.

    Instead, people should argue that torture is permissible in rare instances. For example, denying that torture is appropriate when you know that a suspect has information about an imminent threat to the lives of Americans, and non-torture tactics have proved unavailing, is equally idiotic.
    I beg to differ. shoving bamboo slivers under someone's fingernails is torture. connecting a field generator to someone's genitals is torture. shoving a glass rod up someone's penis and hitting it with a hammer is torture. shoving boiling turkey eggs up someone's ass is torture. cutting someone with a razor and then pouring salt water or alcohol into the wounds is torture.

    tying someone up and pouring water over their face, though uncomfortable (I know, been there done that), is NOT torture. just like putting a pair of panties over a guy's head is not torture.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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