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Thread: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Or conversely, the players without whose labor it is impossible to put any sort of product on the court? If you've followed the entire process of these CBA negotiations like I have, it has consistently been the owners who have repeatedly been making unreasonable demands, not the players. It's the league and the ownership that are essentially being assholes. I don't begrudge them that - they are essentially being assholes because they can. But let's not pretend that it's the owners who are the victims and its only the players who are the whiny children.
    I can agree that both the owners and players are unreasonalbe. What should happen is the fans should the ones saying enough is enough and its time for a change. No longer will we pay the high ticket prices. No longer will we pay high prices for food/beer and parking.
    It is so funny to read through this thread with people defending owners or players. I would bet that some who think it is ok for a player or owner to make millions per year also look at CEO's of non sports companies as evil rich people. IMO players and owners are way over paid for what they provide.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    I can agree that both the owners and players are unreasonalbe. What should happen is the fans should the ones saying enough is enough and its time for a change. No longer will we pay the high ticket prices. No longer will we pay high prices for food/beer and parking.
    It is so funny to read through this thread with people defending owners or players. I would bet that some who think it is ok for a player or owner to make millions per year also look at CEO's of non sports companies as evil rich people. IMO players and owners are way over paid for what they provide.
    I think that's simply how the markets work, due to exposure. I don't think it's morally right for a combat soldier/Marine who puts his life on the line to be paid 1/100th of what an athlete - who plays a ball game for his job - makes. But that's simply how the market operates.

    I do agree though, that while the owners and players are fighting over money, it's the fans, and ancillary and associated businesses that are getting screwed.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think that's simply how the markets work, due to exposure. I don't think it's morally right for a combat soldier/Marine who puts his life on the line to be paid 1/100th of what an athlete - who plays a ball game for his job - makes. But that's simply how the market operates.

    I do agree though, that while the owners and players are fighting over money, it's the fans, and ancillary and associated businesses that are getting screwed.
    Agree,
    It won't happen, but maybe if the players union disolves and the season is cancelled, fans will wake up and say enough is enough and bring about a reasonable change. I no longer go to games because of prices. I am now giving up basketball. There are too many other sports I can watch on tv.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Agree,
    It won't happen, but maybe if the players union disolves and the season is cancelled, fans will wake up and say enough is enough and bring about a reasonable change. I no longer go to games because of prices. I am now giving up basketball. There are too many other sports I can watch on tv.
    I'm a bit more pessimistic than you. I think it's a likelihood at this point that the whole season may be cancelled, but I don't really think the fans have any real say as to how the owners and players operate their business. Pains me to say this as an devout NBA and basketball fan in general. Maybe this will be a good year for me to follow college ball more closely.

    If the league suffers any consequences, it will be in the form of reduced revenues the following year after the cancelled season, much as the league suffered reduced revenues in the aftermath of the lockout-shortened '99 season.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 11-15-11 at 12:35 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    ...is that you in your avatar? because if so...
    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I asked her the same question. It's actually Amy Lee, the evanescence singer. Your Star is always teasing us with pics that we think are her, but not
    Why does everyone think that's me? Just because her tongue is out doesn't mean..............................oh.







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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Why does everyone think that's me? Just because her tongue is out doesn't mean..............................oh.







    so when do we get to see an authentic Your Star pic??
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 11-15-11 at 12:36 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    In 1976, the American Basketball Association merged with the National Basketball Association and I went right out and bought season tickets for my Detroit Pistons. Night after night I sat in the stands at Cobo Hall with about 1,00 close friends and got to watch the new style of ball as played by people like Dr. J, Marvin Barnes, George Gervin, David Thompson (73 at Cobo baby!) and others. They livened up the NBA and we had a wonderful and nearly perfect blend of inner city street ball - the Black Game for lack of a better descriptor and the fundamental, team oriented White Game as played by The Boston Celtics and traditional NBA teams. It was amazing and both made each other better.

    Then a few years later, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson came along - the two players who themselves blended the best of both styles in their own abilities with fancy passes and moves that took you out of your seat. A few years we got Michael Jordan the the trinity was complete.

    Its hard for me to get excited about the pro game anymore. They have changed the interpretation of the rules so much, that its just not the same game - and that is for the worse. I went to a Piston game last year and it was like an advertising circus with a dizzying array of distracting activities that seemed to be promoting anything other than the actual game on the court.

    I suspect these two sides better work something out very soon or the NBA will go out with a whimper as very few people will actually care or even notice.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-15-11 at 08:53 AM.
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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Less and less people are caring about the nba or any of them...people that make hundreds of millions whining incessantly...I dont read or listen to it on the news

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In 1976, the American Basketball Association merged with the National Basketball Association and I went right out and bought season tickets for my Detroit Pistons. Night after night I sat in the stands at Cobo Hall with about 1,00 close friends and got to watch the new style of ball as played by people like Dr. J, Marvin Barnes, George Gervin, David Thompson (73 at Cobo baby!) and others. They livened up the NBA and we had a wonderful and nearly perfect blend of inner city street ball - the Black Game for lack of a better descriptor and the fundamental, team oriented White Game as played by The Boston Celtics and traditional NBA teams. It was amazing and both made each other better.

    Then a few years later, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson came along - the two players who themselves blended the best of both styles in their own abilities with fancy passes and moves that took you out of your seat. A few years we got Michael Jordan the the trinity was complete.

    Its hard for me to get excited about the pro game anymore. They have changed the interpretation of the rules so much, that its just not the same game - and that is for the worse. I went to a Piston game last year and it was like an advertising circus with a dizzying array of distracting activities that seemed to be promoting anything other than the actual game on the court.

    I suspect these two sides better work something out very soon or the NBA will go out with a whimper as very few people will actually care or even notice.
    I won't argue with that. The rules changes in recent years - no hand-checking, the restricted area/circle, the looser interpretation of the traveling rules - all have definitely contributed to a "de-authenticizing", for lack of a better word, of the game. But I suspect that the reason your game experience was horrible is that the Detroit Pistons simply suck as they are currently constructed.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I won't argue with that. The rules changes in recent years - no hand-checking, the restricted area/circle, the looser interpretation of the traveling rules - all have definitely contributed to a "de-authenticizing", for lack of a better word, of the game. But I suspect that the reason your game experience was horrible is that the Detroit Pistons simply suck as they are currently constructed.
    I agree with you completely as to the point by point list you provided of how the game was changed. To me, all those things turned the game into a one on one game where the clear out was now the main way to score. If the game was refereed today as it was years ago, traveling would be called for carrying the ball on almost every other possession if not every possession. When you let an offensive player get away with that, there is no need to pass the ball. The villain in all this is the dunk. People went crazy for the dunk and so the league gave people what they wanted. Look at how Kareem and Walton both said that the inability to do a dunk in college due to its prohibition made them a far better ball player.

    And really, the success of failure of the Pistons made no difference for me. I am not a homer by any means. I spent many years in my half court season ticket 12 rows up from the court cheering wildly for Larry Bird and the Celtics.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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