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Thread: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The owners were very wealthy before any of these players were signed to anything, so if you think that ending the league means anything in the long run to any of them, you are mistaken. Who it does hurt are the fans that love the game. The children that look up to these over indulged children. The industries that make money off of the sport. These players, and the owners both make more off of the people that enjoy the sport, and you know the real sad thing? The average working stiff like myself at this point can't afford to take my son to a game. And that sucks! So end it all, get rid of them, and start over.


    j-mac
    I'm not in favor of ending the league, and I'm not a proponent of taking down owners or destroying their livelihoods. If you couldn't tell already, I am an ardent fan (of a rather ****ty franchise, I might add). And yes, I agree, while the millionaires and billionaires are fighting over money, it's the fans and the businesses who rely on the the league who are losing out. But at the end of the day, if you purely consider the labor negotiations that are going on, it's the owners that are being unreasonable, not the players. And like you mentioned above - most of them are successful businessmen who own many other assets that offset the costs of franchise ownership when they suffer losses. This is another reason NBA owners can stand to weather the storm of a cancelled season much better than the players.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 11-14-11 at 11:45 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Most of these players will be among those in the NBA anyway. If there was a way to equalize the teams, I'd say the league would be far better at that.
    I'm not sure what you mean by equalizing teams.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #53
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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not in favor of ending the league, and I'm not a proponent of taking down owners or destroying their livelihoods. If you couldn't tell already, I am an ardent fan (of a rather ****ty franchise, I might add). And yes, I agree, while the millionaires and billionaires are fighting over money, it's the fans and the businesses who rely on the the league who are losing out. But at the end of the day, if you purely consider the labor negotiations that are going on, it's the owners that are being unreasonable, not the players. And like you mentioned above - most of them are successful businessmen who own many other assets that offset the costs of franchise ownership when they suffer losses. This is another reason NBA owners can stand to weather the storm of a cancelled season much better than the players.
    So basically your argument is who cares if they are losing money in this business venture because they have other business ventures going on? That doesn't make much business sense, sorry.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Anyway - bottom line - for those who are suggesting that NBA-caliber players are easily replaceable without having a noticeable dropoff in quality of play (and thus revenue), I simply disagree. The NBA is in essence a superstar-driven league. You're not going to find anyone among the next 400 best players in the world that come CLOSE to matching the talent level of guys like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony, to name a few. You're simply not.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by equalizing teams.
    Not really important since the real fun is watching all these spoiled cry babies complaining over how bad they have it.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not in favor of ending the league, and I'm not a proponent of taking down owners or destroying their livelihoods. If you couldn't tell already, I am an ardent fan (of a rather ****ty franchise, I might add). And yes, I agree, while the millionaires and billionaires are fighting over money, it's the fans and the businesses who rely on the the league who are losing out. But at the end of the day, if you purely consider the labor negotiations that are going on, it's the owners that are being unreasonable, not the players. And like you mentioned above - most of them are successful businessmen who own many other assets that offset the costs of franchise ownership when they suffer losses. This is another reason NBA owners can stand to weather the storm of a cancelled season much better than the players.

    At this point I don't really care who is being unreasonable, and who isn't...I think they both are, and ****ting all over the people that make their sport possible in the first place.

    I tell ya, I remember growing up going to see the Lions, Tigers, and Pistons for less than $20 buck tickets. Now if I want to take my son to the game it is going to cost a minimum of $150, possibly $200 to see a game. That's BS! They just are not worth that much of MY hard earned labor.

    Growing up I went to the same Junior High School as Magic Johnson, and saw how in the 8th grade the NBA scouts would take him out of class and groom him. These players, many of them hit the lottery, and because of unions, and the nature of collective bargaining who suffers? We do. I think I am going to stick to watching golf. At least golfers aren't bargaining for ever more ticket pricing.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So basically your argument is who cares if they are losing money in this business venture because they have other business ventures going on? That doesn't make much business sense, sorry.
    I'm saying, that's how sports franchise ownership USED to be. Meaning that historically, owners owned sports franchises simply because they loved the sport and were willing to operate them at a loss, if that's what happened.

    Now, I'm not suggesting that I'd like for it to stay that way, or that it's somehow wrong for owners to want to profit, but historically it was more about sport and altruism than it was about money, and I think on the whole that was better for the sport and the fans.

    Of course things are different these days, and there's a lot of money involved. As the league is currently losing money on the whole despite record revenues, I'm definitely in favor of the players giving up a portion of the income that they receive under the current CBA. But the offers that the owners have thrown out there have been consistently unreasonable and not even close to fair, making it seem more to me like they want a large enough portion of the income to be protected from their own silly front office mistakes.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 11-14-11 at 11:57 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    At this point I don't really care who is being unreasonable, and who isn't...I think they both are, and ****ting all over the people that make their sport possible in the first place.

    I tell ya, I remember growing up going to see the Lions, Tigers, and Pistons for less than $20 buck tickets. Now if I want to take my son to the game it is going to cost a minimum of $150, possibly $200 to see a game. That's BS! They just are not worth that much of MY hard earned labor.

    Growing up I went to the same Junior High School as Magic Johnson, and saw how in the 8th grade the NBA scouts would take him out of class and groom him. These players, many of them hit the lottery, and because of unions, and the nature of collective bargaining who suffers? We do. I think I am going to stick to watching golf. At least golfers aren't bargaining for ever more ticket pricing.

    j-mac
    I feel for you bro, but that's simply how the market works. Other folks ARE willing to pay those prices, and owners can still charge those prices and fill stadiums. That's simply the market at work. The high ticket prices don't exist simply because the athletes are overpaid.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 11-14-11 at 11:59 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I feel for you bro, but that's simply how the market works. Other folks ARE willing to pay those prices, and owners can still charge those prices and fill stadiums. That's simply the market at work. The high ticket prices don't exist simply because the athletes are overpaid.
    Well, good for the other fans. Baseball suffered with their fan base whom are still skeptical today for their antics, and other sports are getting on the last nerve of the working class fan today. All I can say is keep it up, and sooner or later, they'll learn.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    george shinn, the lousiest owner in the league, sells his team for $300 million in 2010
    it's located in a small, underaffluent market
    bought the team for $32.5 million in '88
    does that sound like the outcome realized by an unfortunate, victimized owner who deserves the opportunity to pay his employees a discounted wage
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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