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Thread: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No. They can't. Not without seriously disrupting the quality of play, if you know anything about professional basketball. You're talking about the 400 best basketball players in the world. If what you said were the case, it would have already happened.
    College ball is extremely popular. I would argue that the NCAA tourney is both more popular and more exciting than the NBA playoff's.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    College ball is extremely popular. I would argue that the NCAA tourney is both more popular and more exciting than the NBA playoff's.
    I wouldn't disagree with that. I actually enjoy college ball to a great extent, the atmosphere is different and the style of play is different. However, at the end of the day they are two different products that cater to two very different (if sometimes overlapping) markets.

    My point is, that if the NBA replaced all 400 of its professional players today with the 400 best college players, that the quality of play would drop off severely, and the you can be damned sure that ticket revenues would drop off as well. By quality of play, I mean things like defensive ability, offensive execution, individual skills such as shooting ability, speed and athleticism, etc. And basically the overall talent level would drop off It simply won't be the same product.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 11-14-11 at 11:29 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Because football and basketball are not the same product, genius.
    No ****. Want to tell me anything I didn't already know?

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No. They can't. Not without seriously disrupting the quality of play, if you know anything about professional basketball. You're talking about the 400 best basketball players in the world. If what you said were the case, it would have already happened.
    That is big claim you are making there. Want to prove that? The NBA has failed to prove that in the past, so I'm looking forward to you somehow pulling it off.



    Yes, I was. Not because I'm against giving less money to the players and more to the owners. It's because the initial offer by the league was a complete joke and wasn't made in good faith. When your starting point is completely unreasonable, you can spin any subsequent concessions as honest, good-faith concessions and paint the other side as being unreasonable, when nothing can be further from the truth.
    If you say so.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No ****. Want to tell me anything I didn't already know?
    You were the one who suggested that the NBA was not a monopoly because other professional sports leagues cater to the same fans, not me
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Or conversely, the players without whose labor it is impossible to put any sort of product on the court? If you've followed the entire process of these CBA negotiations like I have, it has consistently been the owners who have repeatedly been making unreasonable demands, not the players. It's the league and the ownership that are essentially being assholes. I don't begrudge them that - they are essentially being assholes because they can. But let's not pretend that it's the owners who are the victims and its only the players who are the whiny children.
    The owners were very wealthy before any of these players were signed to anything, so if you think that ending the league means anything in the long run to any of them, you are mistaken. Who it does hurt are the fans that love the game. The children that look up to these over indulged children. The industries that make money off of the sport. These players, and the owners both make more off of the people that enjoy the sport, and you know the real sad thing? The average working stiff like myself at this point can't afford to take my son to a game. And that sucks! So end it all, get rid of them, and start over.


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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I wouldn't disagree with that. I actually enjoy college ball to a great extent, the atmosphere is different and the style of play is different. However, at the end of the day they are two different products that cater to two very different (if sometimes overlapping) markets.

    My point is, that if the NBA replaced all 400 of its professional players today with the 400 best college players, that the quality of play would drop off severely, and the you can be damned sure that ticket revenues would drop off as well. By quality of play, I mean things like defensive ability, offensive execution, individual skills such as shooting ability, speed and athleticism, etc. And basically the overall talent level would drop off It simply won't be the same product.
    Some, not severely and the players brought in would improve their game over time.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is big claim you are making there. Want to prove that? The NBA has failed to prove that in the past, so I'm looking forward to you somehow pulling it off.





    If you say so.
    If you look at basketball talent level on a bell curve, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the talent of the second 400 best players in the world would be a severe dropoff from that of the first four hundred.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Some, not severely and the players brought in would improve their game over time.
    Yes and no. The average basketball player peaks in his early to mid twenties, so while some development is certain to take place, for most of those college players it peaks very soon.

    In any case, the the talent of those players won't come close to the talent level of the first four hundred. This phenomena is evident every year in the draft. You only have a small segment of the draftees - perhaps a fourth or a fifth out of the total sixty players drafted - who will actually go on to have a stable career in the NBA.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Yes and no. The average basketball player peaks in his early to mid twenties, so while some development is certain to take place, for most of those college players it peaks very soon.

    In any case, the the talent of those players won't come close to the talent level of the first four hundred. This phenomena is evident every year in the draft. You only have a small segment of the draftees - perhaps a fourth or a fifth out of the total sixty players drafted - who will actually go on to have a stable career in the NBA.
    Most of these players will be among those in the NBA anyway. If there was a way to equalize the teams, I'd say the league would be far better at that.

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