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Thread: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I know. Lord knows you can watch old games, or....read a book. :P
    The book can even be about basketball!

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They are forced to bargain in exactly the way the union wants. If that wasn't true it wouldn't matter what kind of deal they put on the table. It does though, doesn't it? You even admitted it. The deal was **** according to you, for what I assume is nothing more than they got less money then before. Is it a bad deal when the owners get less money, no, why would it be? Oh I don't know, because its the exact same thing. It would piss me off enough if they were just forced to bargain(they are) but they also have to give in to what the union want and that just throws me off the deep end of pissed. Freedom just goes right out the window so hard only because they own the business and that is it. Its bull****.

    And don't tell I don't understand the economics. I do. The deal they made last time bit them in the ass and they needed to get some money back from the unions, but the entire time the players were playing stupid. At first it all was a lie, and then it was kind of a lie, and now they just don't want to talk anymore. Yeah, they showed a real ability to bargain in good faith. Bull****.
    Wow. Just wow. Do you even realize how the power relationships in these negotiations works? It's the OWNERS that ALWAYS have more leverage than the players. It's the owners that can survive the cancellation of a season, while many players can't. To paint the owners as victims in these bargaining sessions is either disingenuous or willfully ignorant on your part. To say that the league has to bargain on the union's terms is complete BS.

    As for the last contract "biting them in the ass." The players made large concessions in that deal as well. The players ALWAYS lose. Used to be that sports franchise ownership was about the love of the sport, and that owners would be willing to operate them at a loss because their other assets would offset the costs. Now, the owners want guaranteed profits, and in many ways the deal they are asking for is essentially one that shields owners and managers from suffering the consequences of their own dumb mistakes.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    It's one hell of a strategy. The union has decertified itself, and is now going to file an antitrust action against the NBA.

    IMHO, both the union and the team owners have bargained in bad faith, and the result is going to be that basketball players who are now in college are going to become used car salesmen, instead of pro ballplayers. The team owners will then be forced to recruit players from prisons, mental institutions, and Texas.

    Article is here.
    Actually, I foresee that at most there will the cancellation of this year's season. The players in college right now are safe. It's the players that were just drafted in the draft of 2011 that might have to make some hard decisions. Many of them are working regular jobs, or playing overseas.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Wow. Just wow. Do you even realize how the power relationships in these negotiations works? It's the OWNERS that ALWAYS have more leverage than the players. It's the owners that can survive the cancellation of a season, while many players can't. To paint the owners as victims in these bargaining sessions is either disingenuous or willfully ignorant on your part.
    So because they can afford to lose a season and the players can't, which btw has very little to do with bargaining process but how long a side can hold out, the owners have more leverage at the table? Lol, keep going.

    To say that the league has to bargain on the union's terms is complete BS.
    What just happened? What happened with the NFL a few months ago?

    As for the last contract "biting them in the ass." The players made large concessions in that deal as well. The players ALWAYS lose. Used to be that sports franchise ownership was about the love of the sport, and that owners would be willing to operate them at a loss because their other assets would offset the costs. Now, the owners want guaranteed profits, and in many ways the deal they are asking for is essentially one that shields owners and managers from suffering the consequences of their own dumb mistakes.
    Any kind of business model that runs at a loss is a bad business model. You just want them to run at a loss. There should be money on the side if you make mistakes anyway. Not having it there is dumb when you otherwise could.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You do understand why the pay decreases were offered yes? As for the NBA being a monopoly, that is bogus. They compete against other sports for many of the same fans.
    That's like saying that the only electric company in town isn't a monopoly because their customers receive running water from the water works.
    A working class hero is something to be

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Actually, his comment isn't that far from the truth. The average NBA career only lasts a few years. Athletes should make use of the education that they receive in college, because becoming a professional athlete these days is not a sure path to economic or financial stability.
    LOL. I agree his point was a good one. I was just poking fun as there are people that would find the suggestion unreasonable.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    LOL. I agree his point was a good one. I was just poking fun as there are people that would find the suggestion unreasonable.
    haha okay.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    That's like saying that the only electric company in town isn't a monopoly because their customers receive running water from the water works.
    How is that comparable to what I said?

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Wow. Just wow. Do you even realize how the power relationships in these negotiations works? It's the OWNERS that ALWAYS have more leverage than the players. It's the owners that can survive the cancellation of a season, while many players can't.

    Yes, because the millions they make wouldn't support anyone....Overpaid, overpriced, and spoiled children the whole damned lot of them.....


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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    You mean I wont be able to watch some over-paid idiots run up and down for 6 months? Oh no.....

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