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Thread: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    if they cancel the season, they should have to pay back a year's worth of the money that they have grifted from taxpayers.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    jb: "this is a very ripe moment for some monied interests to snap up the players and form a new professional basketball league "

    This may be true. The question is where would the new league pratice and have their games? If its is with the existing facilities, then it would be a "ripe" moment for the fans/(taxpayer) to demand a higher rent on those facilities where tax dollars were used to build. It would be a "ripe" momement to renegotiate any lease for the facilites to whoever to ensure better protection against losses in the future.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so if half were losing money when games were being played, how is it that they will not be losing money now that games are not being played


    really
    no incentive to negotiate
    so, those owners don't have staff to pay while the strike is going on and no income is being generated
    they have no fixed obligations to satisfy during this period of no income
    by now you can probably see that i am saying 'bull ****' to such a foolish comment


    yes, so apples and oranges
    both professional sports leagues
    both at negotiation impasse
    so different [/s]


    the owners stand to lose $1 million per game not played and players are expected to miss $350 million per month
    1,230 games played per season
    and since the players have been realizing half of the NBA revenue as their compensation it appears treasonable to conclude that each side will give up approximately the same income
    If you're operating at a continuing slow-drip loss, and you stop operating, you cut those losses. Any administrative expenses pales in comparison to what is being paid to the players, not to mention the tax manipulating that can be done to offset those losses of revenue from TV and radio.

    Bottom line is that most of these owners have money coming in from multiple businesses. Most of the players don't have a Gatorade deal to bridge them through. The owners will simply wait them out.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    If you're operating at a continuing slow-drip loss, and you stop operating, you cut those losses. Any administrative expenses pales in comparison to what is being paid to the players, not to mention the tax manipulating that can be done to offset those losses of revenue from TV and radio.

    Bottom line is that most of these owners have money coming in from multiple businesses. Most of the players don't have a Gatorade deal to bridge them through. The owners will simply wait them out.
    more economic ignorance
    just as i had anticipated
    you want us to believe that the owners who are presently losing money while generating income from NBA games will somehow become profitable by not selling sporting events during the strike

    you mentioned you have operated a business for twenty years. your profession that losses can be turned into profits by discontinuing income generating operations causes me to question your success as a business operator. reminds me of the adage about how to earn a million dollars in the restaurant business. answer: start with two million
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Here's the thing.

    It's true that the owners can afford to weather the storm of a cancelled season better than the players can. Some of the owners would be quite glad to sacrifice a season to get a better deal - but not all. In addition, even the sacrifice of season is not without consequences to the owners. The NBA isn't that popular right now, and who knows what a cancelled season will to do to the fanbase and to revenues once they do start up again. So while the average owner would probably be in favor of sacrificing a season to get a better deal, that deal only looks attractive up to a certain point. Most would rather NOT have to sacrifice a season if they can help it, especially the small-market owners. It seems to me like the players are just holding out for the best deal that they can before the season is completely gone.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    more economic ignorance
    just as i had anticipated
    you want us to believe that the owners who are presently losing money while generating income from NBA games will somehow become profitable by not selling sporting events during the strike

    you mentioned you have operated a business for twenty years. your profession that losses can be turned into profits by discontinuing income generating operations causes me to question your success as a business operator. reminds me of the adage about how to earn a million dollars in the restaurant business. answer: start with two million
    Mark Cuban won an NBA championship last year and lost money. Does that not resonate with you?

    Do you not understand that if you make $100 through gate receipts, but you pay out $120 in player salaries and event costs, that you are better off not to have the game in the first place? And you call me ecomomically ignorant?

    By your definition of business, no business would ever go out of business.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Mark Cuban won an NBA championship last year and lost money. Does that not resonate with you?

    Do you not understand that if you make $100 through gate receipts, but you pay out $120 in player salaries and event costs, that you are better off not to have the game in the first place? And you call me ecomomically ignorant?

    By your definition of business, no business would ever go out of business.
    Marc Cuban doesn't own the Dallas Mavericks in order to make money. Now i'm sure that Cuban would rather make money than not, but historically basketball franchises have been a rather bad bet for turning a profit. As I pointed out earlier, historically most owners owned a team because they loved the sport and wanted a championship, which is the "psychological value" of owning a sports franchise. It was never all about the money, at least until now. I'm sure the loss of 13 million was a small price for Marc Cuban to pay for the championship he got over the Heat. That fact is that historically, owning an NBA franchise was more about the sport and less about the money.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 11-16-11 at 01:00 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Mark Cuban won an NBA championship last year and lost money. Does that not resonate with you?

    Do you not understand that if you make $100 through gate receipts, but you pay out $120 in player salaries and event costs, that you are better off not to have the game in the first place? And you call me ecomomically ignorant?

    By your definition of business, no business would ever go out of business.
    i see that george shinn, the worst NBA team owner, bought a team for $32.5 million and sold it for $300 million ... all the while insisting he sold it for $50 million less than fair market value just so it would remain in the small, unaffluent new orleans market. makes one question why those with money would pay so much for losing operations. so, given your twenty year history as a business manager, explain that for us
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i see that george shinn, the worst NBA team owner, bought a team for $32.5 million and sold it for $300 million ... all the while insisting he sold it for $50 million less than fair market value just so it would remain in the small, unaffluent new orleans market. makes one question why those with money would pay so much for losing operations. so, given your twenty year history as a business manager, explain that for us
    OK, let me explain to you the concept of CASH FLOW. This is complicated, so try to follow. Just because your house is worth $250,000 doesn't mean you have $250,000 in your bank account, even if it's paid off.

    Not all businesses are owned to be sold. Jerry Jones will never sell the Cowboys, although it has been reported that his cash flow is problematic the past few years due to the new stadium. The Cowboys are VALUED as one of the top franchises in all of sports in the world, but that doesn't mean it's cash flowing. And if he's not selling, then essentially, the team is worth $0.

    Businesses are bought and sold usually on the basis of a cap rate applied to annual revenue streams. For something as rare and exotic as an NBA franchise -there's only 30 of them - that cap rate goes WAY up. It's a prestige buy, not just a business purchase, so the dynamics are very different.

    Really, I know you think you've pinned me in the corner, but this pretty 101 stuff, LOL.
    Last edited by Erod; 11-16-11 at 01:07 PM.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    OK, let me explain to you the concept of CASH FLOW. This is complicated, so try to follow. Just because your house is worth $250,000 doesn't mean you have $250,000 in your bank account, even if it's paid off.

    Not all businesses are owned to be sold. Jerry Jones will never sell the Cowboys, although it has been reported that his cash flow is problematic the past few years due to the new stadium. The Cowboys are VALUED as one of the top franchises in all of sports in the world, but that doesn't mean it's cash flowing. And if he's not selling, then essentially, the team is worth $0.

    Businesses are bought and sold usually on the basis of a cap rate applied to annual revenue streams. For something as rare and exotic as an NBA franchise -there's only 30 of them - that cap rate goes WAY up. It's a prestige buy, not just a business purchase, so the dynamics are very different.

    Really, I know you think you've pinned me in the corner, but this pretty 101 stuff, LOL.
    i did notice - but was not surprised - that you were unable to answer the question
    maybe twenty years of managing a business has been inadequate
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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