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Thread: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Yep, I agree a 50-50 split is essentially the owners wanting guaranteed profitability even when they **** up, insuring themselves from their own mistakes. Some hardliners like MJ even want a 47-53 split, which is completely hypocritical and ridiculous on his part. Also, the owners should entertain more ideas for revenue sharing.
    That is so stupid. I explained to you before the salary was their cut while the rest of the revenues is the owners cut. The players did yes have to give up a great deal of that cut then they had before but it no way means the owners are trying get guaranteed profitability. It means they want to keep more of their cut. What do you think happens anyway when they are forced to give up more of their cut?

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is so stupid. I explained to you before the salary was their cut while the rest of the revenues is the owners cut. The players did yes have to give up a great deal of that cut then they had before but it no way means they are trying get guaranteed profitability. It means they want to keep more of their cut.
    anyone out there able to translate the post immediately above
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is so stupid. I explained to you before the salary was their cut while the rest of the revenues is the owners cut. The players did yes have to give up a great deal of that cut then they had before but it no way means the owners are trying get guaranteed profitability. It means they want to keep more of their cut. What do you think happens anyway when they are forced to give up more of their cut?
    When you're asking for larger and larger cuts, at a certain point it's no longer simply "I want a bigger cut," it becomes "I want so big of a cut that I can be insured from managing my business poorly by whittling down my only fixed cost - player salaries."
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    A more analytical take on the most recent developments:

    An Economics Professor Explains Monday's NBA Lockout News - The Triangle Blog
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i do wonder why mediators were not brought in to facilitate negotiations before the nuclear option was exercised
    Because that would've been SMART... and these clowns didn't want to ruin their perfect record of stupidity they have going.

    I find it hilarious that Hunter has set up shop as the head of the new "trade association", and is still coordinating the lawyers. Just when I thought this guy couldn't possibly be a bigger jackwagon, he goes and effectively proves all by himself that the decert process is a complete sham. The court won't have a hard time figuring that one out...

    According to Chapter 8 of the NLRB's Outline of Law and Procedure in Representation Cases:

    To be effective, [a disclaimer] must be clear and unequivocal and made in good faith. Retail Associates, 120 NLRB 388, 391–392 (1958); Rochelle’s Restaurant, 152 NLRB 1401 (1965); and Gazette Printing Co., 175 NLRB 1103 (1969). In International Paper, 325 NLRB 689 (1998), the Board characterized the request as being one of “sincere of abandonment with relative permanency.”

    Thus, a union’s bare statement is not sufficient to establish that it has abandoned its claim to representation if the surrounding circumstances justify an inference to the contrary. 3 Beall Bros. 3, 110 NLRB 685, 687 (1955). Its conduct, judged in its entirety, must not be inconsistent with its alleged disclaimer H. A. Rider & Sons, 117 NLRB 517, 518 (1957). McClintock Market, 244 NLRB 555 (1979), and Ogden Enterprises, 248 NLRB 290 (1980). Windee’s Metal Industries, 309 NLRB 1074 (1992).
    Disclaimer: If you are offended by the above post, and you aren't a SJW or truther, grow a pair.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    Attachment 67118297

    why is it the players' fault that the owners are weak business people
    and every owner is in a position to sell their franchise for more than they paid for it. how many businesses do you know where the operation loses money year to year and still gets sold for a higher amount than that for which it was purchased

    why would the players be giddy for the loss of their pay checks for a year

    the only thing you have demonstrated is a continuing ignorance of the topic
    I actually run a business, and have for 20+ years. It requires taking a break from the internet, which I'm sure you can't fathom.

    Yes, the owners are largely responsible for the current financial state of the league. And lo and behold, they want to fix it. And they are.

    What the players don't get is that the owners aren't losing money right now, at least most of them. There is no pressure or incentive to negotiate. The players think this is like the NFL situation, which is apples and oranges. The NFL owners stood to lose $200 million per week in the preseason. There was incentive on both sides. Not here.

    What else are the players going to do? The average NBA career is 4 years and change. Imagine losing 25 percent of your life earnings in one year.

    The players need to kick Hunter to the curb and get a deal done. The owners need only sit tight and wait.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by 505 View Post
    Because that would've been SMART... and these clowns didn't want to ruin their perfect record of stupidity they have going.

    I find it hilarious that Hunter has set up shop as the head of the new "trade association", and is still coordinating the lawyers. Just when I thought this guy couldn't possibly be a bigger jackwagon, he goes and effectively proves all by himself that the decert process is a complete sham. The court won't have a hard time figuring that one out...
    They've got some pretty good lawyers on their side though. When you've got some crack lawyers, they can pretty much turn any single sentence of legalese on its head and in your favor.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    They've got some pretty good lawyers on their side though. When you've got some crack lawyers, they can pretty much turn any single sentence of legalese on its head and in your favor.
    If this plays out as an anti-trust lawsuit (which is unlikely), the typical duration of such a case in court is roughly two years.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    If this plays out as an anti-trust lawsuit (which is unlikely), the typical duration of such a case in court is roughly two years.
    Yep, but this isn't typical and both the players and the league know that they can't wait two years. It's pretty clear to me, at least, that this is simply a tactic by the union/trade association to hopefully force Stern and the owners' hand into more negotiations so that they can at least start playing by January or February.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    I actually run a business, and have for 20+ years. It requires taking a break from the internet, which I'm sure you can't fathom.
    and what the hell does that have to do with the subject of this thread?

    Yes, the owners are largely responsible for the current financial state of the league.
    see, we agree on something, early on
    the owners are the ones who bid up the prices of the star players
    and then complain that the players have allowed them to do that
    it's like they want the players to protect the owners from hurting themselves

    And lo and behold, they want to fix it. And they are.
    they are attempting to, anyway
    they are asking the players that they are throwing money at to resist accepting their money
    one hell of a solution

    What the players don't get is that the owners aren't losing money right now, at least most of them.
    damn, that's odd. seems like someone just recently posted a graph depicting each team and their level of profitability. that graph indicates about half of the teams are operating under water
    so if half were losing money when games were being played, how is it that they will not be losing money now that games are not being played

    There is no pressure or incentive to negotiate.
    really
    no incentive to negotiate
    so, those owners don't have staff to pay while the strike is going on and no income is being generated
    they have no fixed obligations to satisfy during this period of no income
    by now you can probably see that i am saying 'bull ****' to such a foolish comment

    The players think this is like the NFL situation, which is apples and oranges.
    yes, so apples and oranges
    both professional sports leagues
    both at negotiation impasse
    so different [/s]

    The NFL owners stood to lose $200 million per week in the preseason.
    the owners stand to lose $1 million per game not played and players are expected to miss $350 million per month
    1,230 games played per season
    and since the players have been realizing half of the NBA revenue as their compensation it appears treasonable to conclude that each side will give up approximately the same income

    There was incentive on both sides. Not here.
    what incentive was their for the NFL players which does not exist for the NBA players to make a deal

    What else are the players going to do? The average NBA career is 4 years and change. Imagine losing 25 percent of your life earnings in one year.
    and by comparison, the average career of an NFL player is 3.3 years
    so much for your apples and oranges argument

    The players need to kick Hunter to the curb and get a deal done.
    actually, that is what they have done
    they have now filed a class action anti trust action against the league and are seeking treble damages ... triple their $2 billion annual income

    The owners need only sit tight and wait.
    yep, wait on the court to rule on this matter ... possibly within one year
    in the meantime, continue to pay the debt obligations of a firm having no income

    this is a very ripe moment for some monied interests to snap up the players and form a new professional basketball league
    Last edited by justabubba; 11-16-11 at 12:12 PM.
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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