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Thread: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Your comment is so off base that I actually have to resort to defending the owners on this one.

    1) Yes, some players are overpaid. Many are not.

    2) The reason players like Joe Johnson are overpaid are not exactly the owners fault. It has to do with how free agency is structured under the most current CBA. For a team like Atlanta, they face two primary options when a player like Joe Johnson reaches free agency. They can either let him go to another team and completely be screwed, or they can overpay him somewhat. Giving Joe Johnson a max contract is essentially the lesser of two evils.
    Actually letting him go was a the lesser of two evils. How are they screwed if they let him go? Joe johnson is not exactly lebron james. Now they are trying to getting rid of him. They would probably let him go for expirings. Isn't it better to not sign him in the 1st place.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from the wikipedia article on SP40



    Heck, even the Pittsburgh quarterback admits that he never got over the goal line on a called TD. It was robbery and the fix was in and it takes away from the credibility of every game since.
    What about that phantom holding call in the endzone that turned a TD in to a fg. That was just a robbery.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They are forced to bargain in exactly the way the union wants. If that wasn't true it wouldn't matter what kind of deal they put on the table. It does though, doesn't it? You even admitted it. The deal was **** according to you, for what I assume is nothing more than they got less money then before. Is it a bad deal when the owners get less money? No. Why would it be? Oh I don't know, because they own everything. It would piss me off enough if they were just forced to bargain(they are) but they also have to give in to what the union wants and that just throws me off the deep end of pissed. Freedom just goes right out the window so hard only because they own the business and that is it. Its bull****.

    And don't tell I don't understand the economics. I do. The deal they made last time bit them in the ass and they needed to get some money back from the unions, but the entire time the players were playing stupid. At first it all was a lie, and then it was kind of a lie, and now they just don't want to talk anymore. Yeah, they showed a real ability to bargain in good faith. Bull****.
    Don't you understand, this is the free market in play?


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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    on a side not. I'm a bulls fan if joe johnson is a casualty of amnesty i wish the bulls would pick him up. I think rose, johnson, deng, boozern, noah = championship.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Actually letting him go was a the lesser of two evils. How are they screwed if they let him go? Joe johnson is not exactly lebron james. Now they are trying to getting rid of him. They would probably let him go for expirings. Isn't it better to not sign him in the 1st place.
    Joe Johnson is the greatest impact player on that team, both in terms of basketball value and the revenue he brings in. He may not be a superstar, but he is the franchise player. Now perhaps this isn't still the case, but when Johnson became a free agent, letting him walk was seen as unacceptable because plenty of other teams wanted to lure him away from Atlanta. Similar situation with several of the players in Memphis. When what you have in free agency is essentially an auction-type system, there's many folks out there who are going to be overpaid. That is why the owners are trying to negotiate on these issues. Besides, the primary fight over the CBA isn't even over free agency or max contracts. It's about the BRI split.

    Free agency is a systems issue - completely secondary to the primary fight over the BRI.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    on a side not. I'm a bulls fan if joe johnson is a casualty of amnesty i wish the bulls would pick him up. I think rose, johnson, deng, boozern, noah = championship.
    That'd be a major salary hit. There are plenty of young two-guards in this league who can potentially fit quite nicely next to rose and don't command the salary that Johnson does. But I won't disagree that you may potentially have a championship-caliber lineup there.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Let us hope this marks the end of the NBA. Put the NHL on TV more!
    Oh God no. If there is one thing that is more boring to watch on TV than a basketball game, its definitely a hockey game. Hockey and B ball are great if you're in the stands, but on TV, I mine as well be watching grass grow.

    I like watching the only true sport on TV, the NFL! Go Saints!!! 2009-2010 World Champions!

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Your comment is so off base that I actually have to resort to defending the owners on this one.

    1) Yes, some players are overpaid. Many are not.

    2) The reason players like Joe Johnson are overpaid is not exactly the owners fault. It has to do with how free agency is structured under the most current CBA. For a team like Atlanta, they face two primary options when a player like Joe Johnson reaches free agency. They can either let him go to another team and completely be screwed, or they can overpay him somewhat. Giving Joe Johnson a max contract is essentially the lesser of two evils.
    I agree that only some players are overpaid. I think there are some players that deserve all they get but the ones that are overpaid have nothing to feel sorry about. I don't buy this owners need to police themselves from themselves crap argument.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Joe Johnson is the greatest impact player on that team, both in terms of basketball value and the revenue he brings in. He may not be a superstar, but he is the franchise player. Now perhaps this isn't still the case, but when Johnson became a free agent, letting him walk was seen as unacceptable because plenty of other teams wanted to lure him away from Atlanta. Similar situation with several of the players in Memphis. When what you have in free agency is essentially an auction-type system, there's many folks out there who are going to be overpaid. That is why the owners are trying to negotiate on these issues. Besides, the primary fight over the CBA isn't even over free agency or max contracts. It's about the BRI split.

    Free agency is a systems issue - completely secondary to the primary fight over the BRI.
    I also believe the players deserve a majority of the BRI. I think if you've ran a business you would know the owners have it good when it comes to labor costs.

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    Re: NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    I agree that only some players are overpaid. I think there are some players that deserve all they get but the ones that are overpaid have nothing to feel sorry about.
    Agreed. But as I pointed out earlier, this is more about how the players split the pie among themselves, rather than how the owners and the players split the pie.

    I don't buy this owners need to police themselves from themselves crap argument.
    Agreed. I think to a large extent this is what's at work during these negotiations over the BRI split. But once again, this has little to do with free agency/max contracts when you look at the whole picture. The primary fight is over the BRI split.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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