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Thread: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

  1. #21
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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I would LOVE to see the "Occupy" movement actually turn violent. If it were to do so, I would have more respect for them than I do for the Tea Party. I don't believe that EITHER movement is willing to do the two things necessary to actually make change....

    1. Shed their own blood
    2. Shed other people's blood (the more important one)

    Additionally, it would give the police the excuse to go in and do what should have been done over a month ago, clean these pieces of refuse out with REAL bullets.
    I don't agree with you at all.

    1. The Tea Party has been much more effective than OWS and they have managed to remain civil. I attribute this to the fact that the Tea Party actually has a core set of objectives and that they are willing to work within our political system to enact their desired change. OWS has none of that.

    2. I don't want to see ANYONE shed their blood.
    TANSTAAFL

    ďAn armed society is a polite society.Ē
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    1. The Tea Party has been much more effective than OWS and they have managed to remain civil. I attribute this to the fact that the Tea Party actually has a core set of objectives and that they are willing to work within our political system to enact their desired change. OWS has none of that.

    2. I don't want to see ANYONE shed their blood.
    Then you have no chance of ever seeing your political and social ideologies become part of the core of American society. This country is LONG PAST the point where any type of protesting or public demonstration will change anything. How are those Tea Party Congressmen you folks elected a couple years ago doing in actually CHANGING the system? I know I haven't seen any of significance. They just became part of the establishment. Nothing more, nothing less.

    In the history of Western Civilization there has been ONE significant non-violent exchange of government. It happened in the 1600's in England. Beyond that, no government in the Western world that I am aware of, has given up power without the use of force against it.

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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    You don't read anything do you? You just see something against OWS and then just type. You aren't actually addressing what the point of this topic is. OWS fail = members of OWS get violent. Not a generalization.
    YOU need to learn to read

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    As I've been saying all along...the OWSer's movement will die out if they take a peaceful protest attitude. They can't have that. They want the authorities to bust some heads.

    More violence on the part of OWS is on it's way.
    The OWSer's movement (general) will die out if they take a peaceful protest attitude. They (general) can't have that. They (general) want the authorities to bust some heads [this is no way supported by any measurement or data, BTW, it's just assumption and supposition].

    More violence on the part of OWS (general) is on it's way.

    That's what was written. Sorry if you were blinded by your position on OWS to actually understand the words there. Please try better.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    YOU need to learn to read



    The OWSer's movement (general) will die out if they take a peaceful protest attitude. They (general) can't have that. They (general) want the authorities to bust some heads [this is no way supported by any measurement or data, BTW, it's just assumption and supposition].

    More violence on the part of OWS (general) is on it's way

    That's what was written. Sorry if you were blinded by your position on OWS to actually understand the words there. Please try better.
    You are such a fool. You had a whole arguement with what I was saying, once you found out you were wrong, you tried to use someone else's writing against me.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    You are such a fool. You had a whole arguement with what I was saying, once you found out you were wrong, you tried to use someone else's writing against me.
    We were both referencing the OP, remember?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't know, they didn't seem to do much here. Just shout over a group of people wishing to end their right to assemble.
    Actually, at first I responded to your flippant comment that they were just shouting and you didnít see what the problem was. I responded with it is a problem as the article points out that the group is taking measures to become violent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But this incident has nothing to do with that, and how can they have "resolutions" and blah if they aren't to be organized?
    Then you changed your argument to this incident has nothing to do with violence. Whereas I pointed out that in fact was a catalyst to start planning violent acts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, the article clearly states that a faction of OWS, not the whole thing, has expressed desires in keeping a violent option.
    Then you decided to point out that it was a faction. Whereas I pointed out, this makes your first comment dumb, as you said you donít see what the problem is. At first you said it was just yelling, and now you are committing a portion of this group becoming violent. As we point out earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The article doesn't have anything to do with them committing violence as they had committed no violent act. They had shouted down government agents and nothing more. It went on to claim that a faction desired to maintain the violent option; not the whole.

    This is correcting you people who think that somehow so long as a or a few OWS members do something, that you can then generalize it to the entire group. It's a very stupid and childish way of thought.
    Again, your initial point was that there was just shouting, and you didnít see a problem. Yet again you change direction to now say that this is just group within the group. Then you go onto a generalization diatribe which once againÖhad nothing to do with your initial diarrhea of the mouth (or in this case keyboard). Then I just pointed out that you arenít reading the article, what other people write, you are just spouting out nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    YOU need to learn to read



    The OWSer's movement (general) will die out if they take a peaceful protest attitude. They (general) can't have that. They (general) want the authorities to bust some heads [this is no way supported by any measurement or data, BTW, it's just assumption and supposition].

    More violence on the part of OWS (general) is on it's way.

    That's what was written. Sorry if you were blinded by your position on OWS to actually understand the words there. Please try better.
    Once again, more of the same. So if you go back to the beginning, you can see, you have no idea what you are talking about. Where do you want to bring your argument now?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Actually, at first I responded to your flippant comment that they were just shouting and you didn’t see what the problem was. I responded with it is a problem as the article points out that the group is taking measures to become violent.
    And this is your first mistake. The group is NOT taking measures to become violent. A faction of the group wanted to reserve the ability to become violent. The group did not agree to become violent in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Then you changed your argument to this incident has nothing to do with violence. Whereas I pointed out that in fact was a catalyst to start planning violent acts.
    You have no proof of that, that's assumption. The most you can say is a faction of the group (not the group itself) may wish to engage in violent acts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Then you decided to point out that it was a faction. Whereas I pointed out, this makes your first comment dumb, as you said you don’t see what the problem is. At first you said it was just yelling, and now you are committing a portion of this group becoming violent. As we point out earlier.
    Because that's what happened. They didn't get violent, they overshouted other people. That's it. There was no problem with what they did. Now if they acted violently, then we could say something about actual intent for violence or bring up violence; but they didn't. The OP merely wanted to try to impress that, but that point is separate from the shouting, which was the title of the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Again, your initial point was that there was just shouting, and you didn’t see a problem. Yet again you change direction to now say that this is just group within the group. Then you go onto a generalization diatribe which once again…had nothing to do with your initial diarrhea of the mouth (or in this case keyboard). Then I just pointed out that you aren’t reading the article, what other people write, you are just spouting out nonsense.
    I was responding to your posts which brought up the violence aspect. This isn't changing direction, it was addressing your posts. For ****'s sake, can you not remember 5 minutes ago? There was no problem with the shouting, and the shouting wasn't violence. My original statement responded to the actual action given in the article, since OWS on the whole did not act violently. It then went into saying that the group would not vote to remain totally peaceful because a faction of it desired to reserve the capability to act violently. But that's not the whole, that's a part. And that was brought up in argument only after you brought it up. If you didn't want me to address it, you shouldn't have asked about it. But don't sit there and pretend I was "changing course" or whatever other stupid argument you want to make when I was responding to what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Once again, more of the same. So if you go back to the beginning, you can see, you have no idea what you are talking about. Where do you want to bring your argument now?
    I know exactly what I am arguing. You said there was no generalization, I pointed out the generalization. Again, response to your posts.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    It is very tiring to argue with someone who won't acknowledge what they said. If your whole arguement is over group and faction...fine. I am responding your orginal comment. They shouted...you see nothing wrong with that. Fine. The article points out that they/members of the group or whatever you want it to be are making efforts to become violent in the name of OWS. That is the problem.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  9. #29
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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    All I know is that I refuse to take part in a protest action that would do any of the following:

    1. Inhibit the ability of private citizens to perform legal jobs.
    2. Inhibit the day-to-day civic operations of my city, particularly police protection and fire/ambulance services.
    3. Cause damage to local businesses, buildings, or structures.
    4. Cause physical harm to any person.

    No matter what the issue, taking actions that penalize innocent people or destroy property are just antithetical to my goals.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  10. #30
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    Re: Occupy campers shout down Oakland council members

    Ikari, you seemed to have missed a very important part of the article I quoted: "Later in the evening, Occupy Oakland protesters gathered for their general assembly meeting and withdrew a resolution calling for future demonstrations to remain peaceful. A faction of the protest group has advocated for violence as a "diversity in tactics" approach to demonstrating."

    This faction that advocates violence may be only a part of this OWS crowd, but they are a part that has a major influence over the whole group in that they caused the general assembly to withdraw their commitment to remain peaceful.

    It now remains to be seen just what kind of violence they perpetrate.
    TANSTAAFL

    ďAn armed society is a polite society.Ē
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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