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Thread: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    no what it means is that cities will have to lay off union workers
    The message of the voters is 100% clear- they won't tolerate trying to put the whole deficit just on the backs of the middle class. If Republicans in the state ignore that and just ram ahead with a different mechanism to accomplish the same thing, their days of being a serious party in Ohio would be over. I doubt they'll be that dumb. No, they need to find a solution to the deficit that requires everybody to chip it- rich and middle class alike.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How does my right to be in a union hurt your supposed rights?
    It doesn't, never did, never could have. But fair and balanced folks will continue to distort, mischaracterize, stereotype, and outright lie because thats all they have left now. Probably all they ever had.
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    What amazes me is how delusional the US right is on unions and the economy and that they are willing to take peoples rights away to promote a political fantasy.. Wonder what is next for the US right, a ban on interracial marriage? Or how about a ban on Muslims holding public office?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    from Henrin on my mentioning the great film MEET JOHN DOE and noting its obvious parallels with the Koch Bros and the tea party:

    Did you just call the Koch Brother and the tea party authoritarian? Care to explain that logic. I'm a bit lost on how that is possible.
    When you watched the film, what else would you label D. B. Norton but a right wing authoritarian? That is 100% crystal clear by his many comments and actions in the film. What else would you call the John Doe movement except a populist effort that was hijacked by Norton? There is no fancy logic you need to apply here. Just watch the film again.

    Union rights are a joke and have always been a joke. Hell, unions are a joke and have always been a joke.
    The joke is apparently on you. The Wagner Act says differently and the US Supreme Court says differently.

    I described the final scene in MEET JOHN DOE and how the right wing industrialist is exposed by the common many who had seeked to use for his own political gain

    At the end of the film the authoritarian rightie is exposed and showed up by the common man who no longer will be led by the nose. the last line of the film comes from a hardboiled worker who informs the industrialist that he just got his ass handed to him.


    Henrin commented


    So basically it was all about the worker and what he wanted with others money. Good to know. Oh that wasn't what his ass handed to him meant? Please explain then.
    The scene is very clear. The right wing industrialist had attempted to use the common people and they turned on him and rejected him, his money and his movement. His ass was indeed handed to him. When you watched the scene it should has been very very clear what happened. The line is "There you are, Norton - - the people, try and lick that."

    It fits perfectly with the comments from the Jane Darwell character - Ma Joad - in another great film from the same era GRAPES OF WRATH when she explains the virtues of the common man.

    I ain’t never gonna be scared no more. I was, though. For a while it looked as though we was beat. Good and beat. Looked like we didn’t have nobody in the whole wide world but enemies. Like nobody was friendly no more. Made me feel kinda bad and scared too, like we was lost and nobody cared…. Rich fellas come up and they die, and their kids ain’t no good and they die out, but we keep on coming. We’re the people that live. They can’t wipe us out, they can’t lick us. We’ll go on forever, Pa, cause we’re the people.
    GRAPES OF WRATH is another great film made at the same time as MEET JOHN DOE when America was preparing for the war against fascism.

    more from Henrin


    Interesting. I can't help but laugh that you actually think a vote no matter what it is on actually represents the people. Votes always, always, represent the wolf. That you can bank on.
    I taught Government for nearly 34 years and have no idea what that means. Votes are wolves!?!?!?!?

    I made this observation


    The people have spoken in Ohio. Deal with it. Or not. We still won. And what you think or do not think rights are is irrelevant to reality.


    Henrin replied

    Learn what rights actually are and say that bit of nonsense again.
    All we have there is me telling you that your own opinion about your own rather unique view of what rights are is irrelevant to reality. That is a 100% valid statement and you presented nothing to say otherwise. You seem more intent on expressing some anger about election results that you are not happy about so you strike out at me in your anger. And that does not make a case for you.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-10-11 at 07:34 AM.
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What amazes me is how delusional the US right is on unions and the economy and that they are willing to take peoples rights away to promote a political fantasy.. Wonder what is next for the US right, a ban on interracial marriage? Or how about a ban on Muslims holding public office?
    Ok, first, I am not the right. I have my own issues with a lot of their policies and philosophies. Do I normally vote for Republican Candidates instead of those from the Democrats, yes, but not because I actually support or believe in the Republicans, but because I absolutely hate socialist/socialistic policies, which the left (democrats) certainly do pursue. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", I don't believe that, so the Republicans are not really my friends, they are an ally in the fight against the socialists. In next years election, I will not actually be voting for the Republican candidate, I will be voting against BO. Likewise, I will not be voting for Republican House and Senate candidates, I will be voting against the Democrats running for those offices. Unfortunately, our system is primarily a two party system, with either the Republicans or Democrats having any realistic chance of winning and for years, some of us have not really been supporting either side but choosing what we believe is "the lesser of the two evils." Since my personal belief is that Socialism and Socialistic socio-economic philosophies and approaches to economics are the greatest Evil ever created by mankind and foisted upon mankind, they you can pretty much bet, and consistently win, that I am not going to be voting for a National Level, or even State Level for that matter, candidate from the Democrats, but that does not automatically make me right winged or on the "US Right".

    Second, no where in the US Constitution, including the Bill of Rights is the "rights" to unionize and collective bargaining ever specifically mentioned. The belief that those are rights are interpretations of what is actually written.

    Third, for over 50 years now, Unions, using collective bargaining has been raising labor costs in the US. In the case of public sector jobs, this has raised costs for state budgets and has directly led to bloated, money hungry inefficient departments inside all levels of government. This is not opinion, this has been proven over and over again with direct evidence (state budgets being just one source) and circumstantial evidence (cost of education vs education rankings). In the private sector, the two primary reasons given for outsourcing labor, usually unskilled labor, is Labor Cost and the cost of meeting Government Regulation, with a very strong emphasis on the EPA. With a few exceptions, nobody in the last 40 plus years actually equates "Made In America" with high standards of quality. Both the high cost of labor (higher pay and benefits from collective bargaining) and the continued reduced quality of products produced by that labor (directly related to job protection bargaining which restricts or eliminates a companies ability to fire low/unproductive workers or workers who continually fail quality control standards) are directly related and caused by Union activities.

    Unions were once a good thing in America, however, their greediness has far exceeded their usefulness in modern society. No, or at least very few, modern Union officials will actually place the wellbeing of the labor they represent over that officials personal fortune or political influence.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Taking the money away was a solution I said. The problem with that is it still has to be connected to voting as they will merely vote for the person that gives them everything they need. Its the same problem with doing favors and subsiding business or even passing things to harm business which causes not only business to try to get out to vote against any more of it but other people to get out to get control of business. Same with any sort of chance for people to get some sort of favor in government. My point is unionization in government directly effects how people vote and has to be connected if taking money out of the process is put on the table.
    The point is, politiicans should nto have a financial interest at all, be it form business or workers. Aside from that. workers without any voice at all will likely be abused in one way or another. Speaking as a collective voice is one way the worker has to increase his voice at the barganing table. Government workers should not be handicapped just because they work for the government. Government leaders should be held accountable for doing their job, and not concerned with making money from those they affect.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What it means is that the people of Ohio realized that teachers and firefighters aren't the problem, despite unrelenting efforts by Republicans to demonize them.
    Do you have a link to the Republican Party demonizing teachers and fire fighters?

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have a link to the Republican Party demonizing teachers and fire fighters?
    Well, on a search, I did find these:

    Several education historians have documented ongoing attacks on teachers and the teaching profession at the hands of disproportionately white male administrators and policymakers (Mirel, 1999; Reese, 2005; Tyack, 1974).

    The 'New' Disdain for Teachers: A gender analysis of anti-teacher sentiments and union-busting

    Did you know that teachers, firemen, police, office workers, IT professionals and mail carriers aren’t actually doing a “real” job?

    That’s according to Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), who told a conservative radio host recently that he’s opposing a national debt limit increase because he believes it wouldn’t affect anyone with a “real job.”

    GOP Rep: Gov’t. workers need to ‘find a real job’*|*Raw Replay

    Of course, you could just listen to Fox for a few seconds to see it:

    Stewart satirically showed multiple instances where reporters, talking heads and politicians demand sacrifices from teachers and other public employees in tough economic times, but don't ask the same from Wall Street types. The double-standard was especially poignant in one clip when a Fox reporter pointed out that teachers aren't paid as much as people on Wall Street because they don't work as hard and they have summers off.

    Jon Stewart Slams Fox News for Scapegoating Teachers - Education - GOOD

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The point is, politiicans should nto have a financial interest at all, be it form business or workers. Aside from that. workers without any voice at all will likely be abused in one way or another. Speaking as a collective voice is one way the worker has to increase his voice at the barganing table. Government workers should not be handicapped just because they work for the government. Government leaders should be held accountable for doing their job, and not concerned with making money from those they affect.
    Government workers already have a voice with their employer.
    They are voters.

    There is no reason to have them unionized and it does not handicap them.
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Nope wrong..Kasich walked in and this is what im going to do and if you dont get on the bus im running you over...and I dont care who likes it or not....and I dont care if you dont like me...then VOILA after the voters kicked his ass...he bent right over and cared very much...lol....he got exactly what he deserved the moron
    Kasich got what he deserved because the voters went down the wrong path?

    How does that effect John Kasich? He is a wealthy man and can always make a good living in many areas. Who got their asses kicked were the short-sighted people of Ohio. This decision can only help other States and let everyone know that Ohio is a poor place to live and invest. Another Detroit is looming.

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