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Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

Phys251 said:
Something just occurred to me here.

The Far Right loves, loves, loves to trumpet about how important it is for the majority to rule, for 50%+1 to have the final word on any political decision. Yet when such a decision doesn't go their way, all hell breaks loose. Evidence: this thread.
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They also liked the Citizens United ruling. Until the Unions pumped money into the Ohio referendum. Then it was bad.
 
rocket88 said:
They also liked the Citizens United ruling. Until the Unions pumped money into the Ohio referendum. Then it was bad.
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Excellent observation. Their advocacy has come back to bite them in the posterior and take a big chunk of flesh. I could not be happier about it.
 
AdamT said:
There's actually a very good reason for all the spending: most people like what it buys and would rather see taxes go up than see, e.g. Medicare and Social Security cut.
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If that's true why did BHO reduce the FICA taxes twice? Isn't part of his jobs bill (AJA) to reduce this even further? Are these the taxes that most people would like to see go up? You DO know that FICA taxes pay for Medicare and Social Security, right?

People in this country are taxed at a lower rate than people in most civilized countries.
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Yes, we are but in the other 'most civilized countries' there are FAR more government 'benefit' programs than we have in this country. Medical care, higher education, earlier retirements, etc. are typical of these other countries thus the reason for their higher taxes. We could have the same but it appears to not be working out so well for several in the EU. But I guess only time will tell.
 
rocket88 said:
They also liked the Citizens United ruling. Until the Unions pumped money into the Ohio referendum. Then it was bad.
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Actually the converse is true. The unions pumping money into the elections only validates the Citizens United ruling. You guys have been hypocrites in complaining about CU knowing the whole time you would promote union money THE SAME WAY!
 
haymarket said:
Excellent observation. Their advocacy has come back to bite them in the posterior and take a big chunk of flesh. I could not be happier about it.
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MEEEE TOOOO!!! And I hope the result of this referendum doesn't 'bite them (Ohioians) in the posterior and take a big chunk of flesh'. But in the end I will hate it for them but I don't live there so...good luck with that.
 
Dickieboy said:
Actually the converse is true. The unions pumping money into the elections only validates the Citizens United ruling. You guys have been hypocrites in complaining about CU knowing the whole time you would promote union money THE SAME WAY!
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Yes it does validate it. I never thought the ruling was wrong, so I'm not surprised in the least. What I am surprised about is that Unions made it work for them so quickly.

The point is that the ultra-Cons were dancing up a storm when the ruling came down. Yet in another thread, Conservative was bitching about how much money the Unions spent. There it is. Did you really lack the foresight to see that the Unions would learn to use the ruling?
 
haymarket said:
I majored in political science in college. I taught government for over 33 years. I have no idea what you are talking about and i suspect that neither do you with this statement
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You have no idea what I'm talking about? What good does all this experience do you when you are clueless?

You want to balance the book by keeping things around you shouldn't. That is what you are doing..

Lewis Carroll could have written that. On second thought scratch that as Carroll was a much superior writer.
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So there is an counter argument. Good show Hay.

As to you being a impotent libertarian - the American people are lucky.
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Don't worry the influence is growing as your ideas fall. Heads I win. Tails you lose
 
Phys251 said:
Something just occurred to me here.

The Far Right loves, loves, loves to trumpet about how important it is for the majority to rule, for 50%+1 to have the final word on any political decision. Yet when such a decision doesn't go their way, all hell breaks loose. Evidence: this thread.
Click to expand...

That is the left you dolt.
 
rocket88 said:
Yes it does validate it. I never thought the ruling was wrong, so I'm not surprised in the least. What I am surprised about is that Unions made it work for them so quickly.

The point is that the ultra-Cons were dancing up a storm when the ruling came down. Yet in another thread, Conservative was bitching about how much money the Unions spent. There it is. Did you really lack the foresight to see that the Unions would learn to use the ruling?
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Unions had been doing this, before McCain Feingold, it's nothing new.
 
Henrin said:
You have no idea what I'm talking about?
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That is because you talk nonsense. Try explaining your own statements which made no sense to start with

You want to balance the book by keeping things around you shouldn't. That is what you are doing..
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You talk nonsense and then try to crack wise when you are not understood due to your own ineptitude with language and reason. But do give it a shot.
 
haymarket said:
That is because you talk nonsense. Try explaining your own statements which made no sense to start with



You talk nonsense and then try to crack wise when you are not understood due to your own ineptitude with language and reason. But do give it a shot.
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How is that not understandable? Its straight forward from what I can tell. Maybe you can't read or you're playing dumb. I'm going with playing dumb but I'm open to the idea that you can't read.
 
Phys251 said:
Something just occurred to me here.

The Far Right loves, loves, loves to trumpet about how important it is for the majority to rule, for 50%+1 to have the final word on any political decision. Yet when such a decision doesn't go their way, all hell breaks loose. Evidence: this thread.
Click to expand...

Indeed, if things are going their way it's a conservative revolution. If not, it's the tyranny of the majority.
 
Phys251 said:
Something just occurred to me here.

The Far Right loves, loves, loves to trumpet about how important it is for the majority to rule, for 50%+1 to have the final word on any political decision. Yet when such a decision doesn't go their way, all hell breaks loose. Evidence: this thread.
Click to expand...

I've never heard anyone on the far right trumpet this idea. To whom are you referring?
 
Phys251 said:
Something just occurred to me here.

The Far Right loves, loves, loves to trumpet about how important it is for the majority to rule, for 50%+1 to have the final word on any political decision. Yet when such a decision doesn't go their way, all hell breaks loose. Evidence: this thread.
Click to expand...

LOL, and the left never ever complained or raised a fuss about what the right was doing when the right had control? Let me guess, you watch a lot of CNN don't you?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Incorrect, both police and firefighting are service monopolies.
Schooling, is nearly a monopoly, although there are private alternatives.
The public is required to pay taxes for these services, regardless.

Public employees, most especially those involved in the service monopolies, should not have a right to collectively bargain.
What about those who want the right to bargain individually, but are denied based on the union employer relationship?
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So, you want serveral police services in town?

No, we do have private security agencies, we have private fire departments, and private schools. So, they are not monopolies. True, there is not much call for private police forces, but it is not true that they control the market in the way a business monopoly does. Police are hardly over paid. Sad that anyone would argue that they are.

Please point to a specific instance where an individual has demonstrated that he would get a better deal on his own. I would like to see that.
 
Henrin said:
That is the left you dolt.
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LOL, a childish flame, factless post, goalpost shift, and strawman all rolled into one. Nicely done! :D

AdamT said:
Indeed, if things are going their way it's a conservative revolution. If not, it's the tyranny of the majority.
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Yup.

Centinel said:
I've never heard anyone on the far right trumpet this idea. To whom are you referring?
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Maybe you and I are referring to a different Right?

DVSentinel said:
LOL, and the left never ever complained or raised a fuss about what the right was doing when the right had control? Let me guess, you watch a lot of CNN don't you?
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LOL, same thing as Henrin's post, but you took more words to pull it off. Try to work on your efficiency. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
Whine? Don't think so, but at least we do have a real healthcare issue here in the US. There is no real abused rich people here in the US. BTW, as we pay more for health care than nearly any nation in the world, who do think pays for it now?
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you constantly complain about how bad the poor have it. that is whining. And yes, it is abusive to make the top one percent pay 40% of the income tax burden so people like you don't have to pay as much as you should
 
TurtleDude said:
you constantly complain about how bad the poor have it. that is whining. And yes, it is abusive to make the top one percent pay 40% of the income tax burden so people like you don't have to pay as much as you should
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I don't recall doing that either. Perhaps you can link where I have.

And show that it is abusive. Would those paying 40% really want to be poorer? What have they lost? Where is the abuse? You do know that word has a read dennotative definition, right?
 
Henrin said:
How is that not understandable? Its straight forward from what I can tell. Maybe you can't read or you're playing dumb. I'm going with playing dumb but I'm open to the idea that you can't read.
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So it should be easy for someone of your mental capacity then. Please, do explain what this means

You want to balance the book by keeping things around you shouldn't. That is what you are doing..
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Illuminate us. Edify us. Inform us. Teach us.

I suspect even you don't know what you wrote and cannot do so.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't recall doing that either. Perhaps you can link where I have.

And show that it is abusive. Would those paying 40% really want to be poorer? What have they lost? Where is the abuse? You do know that word has a read dennotative definition, right?
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We Are The 1% - CollegeHumor Video

Centinel said:
I'm not sure. To whom were you referring?
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I was under the impression that strong conservatives hold majority rule of the people as one of their fundamental tenets. That's part of why they like local rule, dislike "activist judges," etc. Interestingly, there is a bit of merit to the idea, but IMO in practice it just isn't good enough.
 
AdamT said:
Indeed, if things are going their way it's a conservative revolution. If not, it's the tyranny of the majority.
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This is bad for Ohio the same way Barrack Obama is bad for the United States. However no one is wanting an end to democracy as a result of these goofy decisions. These things happen, and it is hoped people learn from them, though that is difficult with the unions also running the schools.
 
Boo Radley;1059946346]We don't have UHC, so they aren't taking it for that. But yes, taxes pay for ****. No one denies that. But, we pay now. Right now. And we pay more than other countries, for less. Not sure why you think that is good. But do always keep in mind my argument: we need to cut spending and increase revenue. To do this, we should also clarify where we spend money. Health care is one of the places I think we should. That's just an argument. Not crying at all. Not saying poor anyone.
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Really kind of a confusing post, you say that we pay more then many other counties in taxes, yet you want to raise our taxes, will you be happy when we pay more than any other country???
It's also been pointed out that we pay more in health care then most other countries, yet you want to increase our spending on health care. I just can't help but to wonder as a modern day liberal, is there any solution with you people that doesn't call for even more spending? Forgive me for saying this .... but it's just that kind of thinking that has this country of ours 15 trillion dollars in debt.


On that, you're completely wrong about. You pay for others, and with no mechanism to monitor how much you pay over what was used. Those countries have better access. Do better overall, despite some problems, than we do. And I suspect, if we really tried, we could do even better. ;)
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Yes we can do better, I don't think anyone is arguing that point, but you fail to point on a very important factor, we have the very best health care in the world. To those that have decent health care insurance, or the money to pay for their health care, we have the best, bar none. Our problem is not the health care that we have, it's in making it more affordable to those that don't have it. We disagree in a major way, because there are still over 70% of the people that have access to our health care, and I don't think that we should diminish the quality of what we have, as we seem to be doing with the health care bill we now have. But again .. I understand that with liberals like yourself, the answer to all our problems is just to spend more on a problem and that will fix it.
 
BWG said:
According to a BLS report from January 2011 almost 63% of workers in education, training, and library occupations are NON union. So why you want to put students poor performance on the union teachers who do not make policy?
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There is no doubt that education standards in the United States has dropped. This is reflected by those participating in the OWS protests whenever they're given a chance to speak, as well as what frequently appears on these boards. The United States, as well as Britain, was once looked upon as the gold standard in education but that has obviously changed over the past generation.

You can deny it or do something about it, but there is no doubt that without remaining competitive in education the United States will continue its slide vis a vis other nations. The natural wealth and freedoms many Americans still feel is their birthright and the natural order of things, will continue to slip away. It is not written in the stars that the superior lifestyle Americans have enjoyed over the decades is a thing of permanence. Americans have recently changed their philosophy and attitudes and, as they do so, their prominence in the world will drift away. Ideas have consequences and the ideas of the Left always and inevitably have amazing similar consequences.

International Competitiveness | Teachers Union Facts
 
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