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Thread: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Lets see, if a person makes $25 K a year, a flat tax of 9% would be $2250 a year, if a person makes 250K a year, a 9% tax rate would be $22500 a year. So how exactly is a flat tax making people under $250K a year pay more taxes. If the tax rate is equal for everyone, then the more you make, the more in actual dollar amounts you will pay. Apparently to some people, "All men are created equal" should only apply to those who want "entitlements" from the government and used as a basis for enacting those "entitlements", but should not be applied to financially successful people when it comes to collecting monies to pay for the "entitlements".
    If a person makes $25k a year he has essentially no disposable income. A 9% tax is coming out of money he needs for food and shelter. A person making $250k a year has more than enough to pay an effective 20% tax rate and still live quite comfortably.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And that has what to do with the overturning of Ohio's anti union legislation? Please, try to keep up with the rest of us, or better yet, feel free to start this in a new thread.
    I think my post is directly on point since most of you girls are blathering on about the tsunami wave of liberalism washing over the Country......and that is simply not true. Carry on.
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Democracy speaks. Although Ohio voters made the wrong decision in my opinion.
    I agree, unfortunately this democratic decision will further non-democratic activities. The collective bargaining issues were specific to PUBLIC unions. These PUBLIC unions can still negotiate their wages/benefits with public entities and leverage their demands via strike threats. This extorts their compensation from the TAXPAYER, very non-democratic.

    Relish in it Ohio.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The big unions are saying anything here; I am. he came across, like many conservatives, as anti-worker. And teachers unions don't represent kids, so it's kind of silly for anyone to make a argument about them concerning kids at all. That said, they are not anti-kid either. Both parties sign the agreements that are made. You should hold those who agree to conditions you find inappropriate in as much contempt as you do worker's unions. That you don't seem to, comes across as anti-worker.

    But really it is the rhetoric your side uses that most often paints that side as anti-worker. You make it sound often as if all teachers are bad when there is really a very small percentage that would fit that category. Too often you take the worse of all workers, again a small percentage, and behave as if it is all workers. Teachers, police officers, fire fighters all demonized in one way or another, and seldom express any support for issues that effect them greatly. But let someone suggest rasing a tax on a on a millionare or even a billionare, and those people are then so picked on. Poor poor folks.

    If you look, I think you can see what I mean.
    There is no doubt the governor blew it. He clearly did not spell out the probable outcome if Ohio continues down the path of stealing money from the working stiffs and doling it out to pay excessive salaries and benefits to public sector union folks. He also didn't spell out to the union folks the current model is unsustainable. In a word, Kasich sucks.
    I love the smell of burning moonbat in the morning.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Considering that one ad (#1) told the truth....and the second ad was filled with lies and rhetoric (i.e. "Gold-plated pensions")....I think your post just proved my point.

    The pro-corporate GOP's propoganda failed despite their best efforts.
    It's blatantly dishonest to imply that SB5 imperils public safety. Staffing levels are likely to go down regardless, as there is simply less money in the state.

    Not to mention the emotional appeals (the grandmotherly old woman, the child being carried from the burning house). It's clear propaganda.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    If a person makes $25k a year he has essentially no disposable income. A 9% tax is coming out of money he needs for food and shelter. A person making $250k a year has more than enough to pay an effective 20% tax rate and still live quite comfortably.
    Then this should motivate the individual making $25K to make changes and get the education and skills needed to raise his/her income level. It is not mine, nor someone making $250k a year, responsibility to soften the impact of the choices made by the person that led to them making only $25K a year. Only if the person is limited to $25K a year due to mental or physical disabilities is there a community responsibility to aid them. If such a limit is imposed by a persons own choices and decisions, they tough petunias, you made your bed, now sleep in it. The only reason for normal healthy person to be economically limited is because they were too lazy to seek out education, training and other methods to increase their own incomes or they did not properly evaluate the choices that they made before they made them. I have no moral, nor should I have a legal, obligation to not let these people suffer the consequences of their own actions.

    "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness", Life-you are given it upon birth, what you make of it and whether or not you keep it is entirely up to you, no one has the right to take it from you, but neither does anyone have an obligation to help you keep it or make it more comfortable for you. Liberty-Freedom is not free, Liberty can only flourish when regularly watered with blood of patriots. The Pursuit of Happiness- no one ever guaranteed that you would catch happiness, only that you have the right to pursue it. It does not mean that you should not suffer or gain as a result of your own choices.
    Last edited by DVSentinel; 11-09-11 at 02:11 PM.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    There is no doubt the governor blew it. He clearly did not spell out the probable outcome if Ohio continues down the path of stealing money from the working stiffs and doling it out to pay excessive salaries and benefits to public sector union folks. He also didn't spell out to the union folks the current model is unsustainable. In a word, Kasich sucks.
    Nope wrong..Kasich walked in and this is what im going to do and if you dont get on the bus im running you over...and I dont care who likes it or not....and I dont care if you dont like me...then VOILA after the voters kicked his ass...he bent right over and cared very much...lol....he got exactly what he deserved the moron

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    There is no doubt the governor blew it. He clearly did not spell out the probable outcome if Ohio continues down the path of stealing money from the working stiffs and doling it out to pay excessive salaries and benefits to public sector union folks. He also didn't spell out to the union folks the current model is unsustainable. In a word, Kasich sucks.
    Stealing money? Notice the rhetoric. Stealing. A negotiated agreement is stealing? I would argue the incompetence of those who negotiated if you think the agreement is that bad.

    Have you ever seen the difference in rhetoric on Fox between what teachers make and taxing people over 250K? You should look it up. Funny stuff.

    "They're not big shot teachers with their desks and seemingly endless supply of colored construction paper."

    "Oh! And their number two pencils," Stewart went on. "I suppose Number three pencils aren't good enough for Your Majesty."

    He then played footage from just a few months ago that showed Fox anchors wailing that the Bush tax cuts must be extended for people making over $250,000 per year because those people, as one anchor put it, were almost living in poverty.

    "See the difference?" Stewart asked. "Regardless of the greed-based, slightly sociopathic job bankers did wrecking our economy, those people were there every single day, twelve months a year."

    Jon Stewart Nails Fox News Hypocrisy On Teachers Vs. Wall Street Pay Levels (VIDEO) | TPM LiveWire

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    I never claimed you did have to listen.... as a matter of fact his just proves that negotiation sometimes break down.
    Hearing them is one thing but having all these laws that make it impossible for employers to ignore what they hear is another.


    So basically your are just saying you don't want to comply with federal law in certain instances... OK well I can understand that there are many laws I don't feel I should have to comply with either.
    I'm saying when you close off every outlet for the employer to not talk and sue them when they don't as well they are forced to bargain.

    Well, in my opinion it is related like this.... and here is your quote for reference:

    While your assertion may in fact be correct, how can you complain that you are doing anything different?
    Because a right can't come from the violation of someone else's rights or the work of another person. This supposed right breaches both. I understand people believe government creates rights, but even if that was true, which its not, it makes no sense to breach rights when you create a right.

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Stealing money? Notice the rhetoric. Stealing. A negotiated agreement is stealing? I would argue the incompetence of those who negotiated if you think the agreement is that bad.
    EERRR, I think you misread. The point was that 'Ohio' would be 'stealing' money from 'working stiffs' (the taxpayers) and giving it to 'public sector union folks'.


    Please reduce the level of your 'partisan rhetoric alarm'.

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