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Thread: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

  1. #141
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that sort of comment just oozes class envy. it also is indicative of someone who has failed to achieve and is upset with that fact
    Turtle... I was dearly hoping that this whole ENVY thing had been disposed of.... but you continue to bring it up again and again rather than mount any rational intellectual argument against the points raised by others here.
    Those who are quick to levy this phony charge need to read this and memorize parts of it dealing with the right wing nonsense about ENVY.

    Wall Street Isn't Winning It's Cheating | Matt Taibbi | Rolling Stone

    In this part, the ridiculous charge of ENVY is crushed and flushed, crashed and trashed, snipped and ripped, and generally destroyed beyond recognition. Please allow it a decent burial.

    The idea that masses of people suddenly discovered a deep-seated animus/envy toward the rich – after keeping it strategically hidden for decades – is crazy. Where was all that class hatred in the Reagan years, when openly dumping on the poor became fashionable? Where was it in the last two decades, when unions disappeared and CEO pay relative to median incomes started to triple and quadruple? The answer is, it was never there. If anything, just the opposite has been true. Americans for the most part love the rich, even the obnoxious rich. And in recent years, the harder things got, the more we've obsessed over the wealth dream. As unemployment skyrocketed, people tuned in in droves to gawk at Evrémonde-heiresses like Paris Hilton, or watch bullies like Donald Trump fire people on TV. Moreover, the worse the economy got, the more being a millionaire or a billionaire somehow became a qualification for high office, as people flocked to voting booths to support politicians with names like Bloomberg and Rockefeller and Corzine, names that to voters symbolized success and expertise at a time when few people seemed to have answers. At last count, there were 245 millionaires in congress, including 66 in the Senate.

    And we hate the rich? Come on. Success is the national religion, and almost everyone is a believer. Americans love winners. But that's just the problem. These guys on Wall Street are not winning – they're cheating. And as much as we love the self-made success story, we hate the cheater that much more. In this country, we cheer for people who hit their own home runs – not shortcut-chasing juicers like Bonds and McGwire, Blankfein and Dimon.
    The charge of ENVY is leveled by the intellectually dishonest who at once want to congratulate themselves with a pat on the back the way a high school girl does when she whines that "you only hate me because I am beautiful" . It is a self given compliment that is intended to boost ones own ego and stroke ones own self image while cowardly running away from the actual issues raised in a discussion about economics and the growing disparity between income groups in this nation.

    Turtle, you are an Ivy League educated attorney. Discuss this issue with all your training and skills and dispense with this lazy self-congratulating shortcut once and for all please.



    Read more: Wall Street Isn't Winning It's Cheating | Matt Taibbi | Rolling Stone
    __________________________________________________ _
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  2. #142
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    from Henrin

    You don't need more revenue, you need to cut spending.
    While I was born in 1949, I never thought I would live long enough to see the day when some people - out of their own self imposed ideological blindness - would deny the simple lesson you earn in the first week of a high school accounting course - that there are two sides to a balance sheet and that both must be dealt with in balancing the books.

    The fact that we have reached this nadir is a vivid demonstration of how far some extremists have fallen down the rabbit hole and are about to pass Alice and the Mad Hatter any moment now. And that is beyond sad and does not portend well for our nation.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #143
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Your argument never did make any sense the first time I heard it from Obama himself. You don't need more revenue, you need to cut spending. There is no reason someone should be taxed as much as people are taxed in this country. None. We need to slash government(not all once you understand) and move on, but what you actually want will not eliminate the debt, and will just take more money from people to provide favors for people just because they can't buy a service or a business does the government a reach around. All you want is dependence and that is it.
    U.S. tax burden at lowest point in years - UPI.com

    Economist's View: The U.S. Tax Burden Relative to Other Countries

    Let's see: tax burden is historically low in the post-WW2 era AND we have the second-lowest tax burden in the developed world.

    So neither history nor the present world hold true that Americans are over-taxed.

  4. #144
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They are not a monopoly. No one is held hostage anymore than with any other such service. Tax dollars are not targeted to specific government jobs, but we have shut the government down from time to time.

    Employees, government or private, have the right to negotiate collectively, and they should have that right.
    Incorrect, both police and firefighting are service monopolies.
    Schooling, is nearly a monopoly, although there are private alternatives.
    The public is required to pay taxes for these services, regardless.

    Public employees, most especially those involved in the service monopolies, should not have a right to collectively bargain.
    What about those who want the right to bargain individually, but are denied based on the union employer relationship?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    While I was born in 1949, I never thought I would live long enough to see the day when some people - out of their own self imposed ideological blindness - would deny the simple lesson you earn in the first week of a high school accounting course - that there are two sides to a balance sheet and that both must be dealt with in balancing the books.
    You want to balance the book by keeping things around you shouldn't. That is what you are doing. Don't try this crap on me.

    The fact that we have reached this nadir is a vivid demonstration of how far some extremists have fallen down the rabbit hole and are about to pass Alice and the Mad Hatter any moment now. And that is beyond sad and does not portend well for our nation.
    You really think I have any power? I'm twenty nine years old and a libertarian. I'm as powerless as a disclawed kitten in this regard.

  6. #146
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    The blowhard kasich lost...the dirtbags numbers are in the 20s....I used to really like Kasich when he was a congressman even though I wasnt in his district...I thought he had common sense and was intelligent and he was NOT THIS TEAPARTY FAR RIGHT ARSEWIPE that he morphed into...he jumped on the far rigth lets murder the working class train...
    So, you would rather support an agenda that raises taxes on the middle class, in order to keep unions alive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #147
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    economic reality is going to bust unions. unions create artificially high wages for workers Global trade destroys that artificial wage scale
    Why are wages for workers "artificially high" while CEO salaries rising 300% or so since 1990 in NOT artificially high?

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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    U.S. tax burden at lowest point in years - UPI.com

    Economist's View: The U.S. Tax Burden Relative to Other Countries

    Let's see: tax burden is historically low in the post-WW2 era AND we have the second-lowest tax burden in the developed world.
    Since WW2 you say? What was the income tax originally? Seven percent. What was it promised to never go higher than 10%. What is it highest rate now? What was the growth like in 1950? How many great inventions came about? When did advancement speed back up again? Those rates you were talking about were not good for growth in the private sector. Why exactly do you think that over time the government has done more and more to advance technology? One because they wanted to(biggest reason) and two because in part because they destroyed the market.

    So neither history nor the present world hold true that Americans are over-taxed.
    You don't consider that the rest of the world is over taxed? Tell me if you want, why should people get half or more than half of their income taken by government(all government state and fed) You know why we tax so much? Because you want things. Things have to get paid for obviously so you need to tax people to make them happen. If the government was just doing its job the rates would be in the single digits, but you want them to do everything else. That costs money that takes money out of the market and out of peoples hands. If we were actually trying to be a republic like we were designed to be and not trying our best to be democracy that is nothing but wolves eating sheep we would use our government to protect rights and liberties, but we use it to provide favors for some with money of others, just like a democracy would do. Its a bit of shame we can't respect each other and be a republic. If we did you wouldn't be even complaining about how rich people are either. Shame really.
    Last edited by Henrin; 11-11-11 at 06:34 PM.

  9. #149
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Something just occurred to me here.

    The Far Right loves, loves, loves to trumpet about how important it is for the majority to rule, for 50%+1 to have the final word on any political decision. Yet when such a decision doesn't go their way, all hell breaks loose. Evidence: this thread.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  10. #150
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    Re: Ohio voters reject Republican-backed union limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You want to balance the book by keeping things around you shouldn't. That is what you are doing. Don't try this crap on me.



    You really think I have any power? I'm twenty nine years old and a libertarian. I'm as powerless as a disclawed kitten in this regard.
    I majored in political science in college. I taught government for over 33 years. I have no idea what you are talking about and i suspect that neither do you with this statement

    You want to balance the book by keeping things around you shouldn't. That is what you are doing..

    Lewis Carroll could have written that. On second thought scratch that as Carroll was a much superior writer.

    As to you being a impotent libertarian - the American people are lucky.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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