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Thread: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    Well, if you come down under to good old ORstaylia you will find a pretty socialist type of government that most people seem to like and which has distinctly failed to tyrannise us
    Aye, they probably do. However, we are not talking about Australia, we are talking about the US. Australia only has a population of 22,328,800 (source: Google Public Data Explorer) vs the US which has a population of 307,006,550 (same source). What works for such a small population is a lot different from what works for larger populations. Also, exactly what shape would Australia be in if it lost all of the technologies and industries created by the US? Or more to the point of this thread, take a good look at just the medical technologies, those created or first introduced in the US vs Australia. Or even the availability of Technologies to the people. One technology as an example is MRI. The US has 22 MRI units available for every million of the population, Australia has less than 4 MRI units per million of population.(source: MRI Units vs. Health Care Spending by Country - Supporting Evidence).

    What all these people who are promoting "socialized" Health Care in America seem to fail to understand is that should the US change it's Health Care System, almost all advancements is medicine will stop. The US, under it's current system, either creates or pays for the development/deployment of almost all medical advancements. Almost all new drugs are initially introduced in the US. Without the US paying the costs that it does for these drugs, companies would never see a profit and would therefore either disappear or would slow down or stop development.

    This mandate to buy insurance was put into the bill at the request of the insurance companies. It is necessary, without it, other requirements of this bill would collapse that industry very quickly. It is not even certain that with the mandatory insurance provision that the Health Care Insurance companies can survive. This bill was written and promoted by people who want "socialized" health care. The "public option" which BO wanted didn't make it through. That option would of allowed the government to seize control of the industry if it failed. Interesting that so many provisions of this bill seem to work towards making the system fail.

    I for one, definitely would like to see this whole reform bill die and go away. It is bad in so many ways that it would take months of typing to point them all out.
    Last edited by DVSentinel; 11-11-11 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Added last two sentences to clarify my stance..

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    the people ARE the govt....if the people choose it, and they have so far, then the govt must supply it...
    Oh ok. So if the people choose to make red heads sex slaves then the government must supply it?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Oh ok. So if the people choose to make red heads sex slaves then the government must supply it?
    I guess some people just never get that the majority can sometimes be wrong.

    Majority view--

    The solar system and the universe revolves around the earth. Proven wrong.

    The Earth is flat. Again proven wrong.

    BO would take office and America would immediately or almost immediately be better off. 3 years and over $4 Trillion later and the economy is pretty much in the same shape as the day he took office.

    So much for the "majority" always being right, eh?

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Your characterization would be right for an unrestrained democracy.

    In these united states, however, the majority is restrained by the constitution. The majority may only exercise authority over certain specific subjects, and is forbidden from ruling in areas to which it has not been granted authority. For example, the majority may not establish an official religion.

    In our constitutional republic, I don’t really think one can seriously claim that the majority rules in all instances and that the minority must simply suck it up and love it or leave it.
    Sure, of course that's correct. But the system is designed for majority rule in the areas where government is empowered to act. Some conservatives (including all Republicans in the Senate) seem to have a problem with that ... unless they are in the majority.

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Sure, of course that's correct. But the system is designed for majority rule in the areas where government is empowered to act.
    Agreed.

    Some conservatives (including all Republicans in the Senate) seem to have a problem with that ... unless they are in the majority.
    Who has a problem with majority rule in the areas where the federal government is empowered to act? I don't know of any such people.

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I want car and home insurance requirements repealed. If requiring health care insurance is bad, then those must be bad as well.

    I also want employers to stop offering health insurance and pension plans. Lets go all the way conservative, everybody is on his own. This is the onlly way to stop this creeping socialism that threatens to turn us into a nation of dependents, all sucking the teats of government.

    So, is UtahBill being sarcastic, or not?
    I know. It's BS that my state government is anti Obamacare but they won't repeal all the laws forcing our state residences to buy auto insurance.

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I know. It's BS that my state government is anti Obamacare but they won't repeal all the laws forcing our state residences to buy auto insurance.
    Why do you drag out that fallacy?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Lets for a moment say that SCOTUS does rule in favor of Obamacare because of the Commerce Clause. What then will they rule in favor of next? How about guns? Will it become illegal to buy guns since they are a health hazard? Will it become illegal to sell guns across state lines? Will the federal government stop allowing guns from being imported/exported in order to be sold to citizens? You'd still have your right to own a gun. That is all that the 2nd amendment gauruntees. It doesn't gauruntee your right to buy them or sell them however. Not if the commerce clause is allowed to regulate that you have to buy something anyways. Once that road is traveled there is basically no limit that the commerce clause cannot be used for.
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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    [/COLOR][/FONT]
    Read more @: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling - CNN.com

    I believe this is a huge victory for the Health Care law.. We desperately need reform and i believe this is just a small start. Although more hearings are in place i see this one as a victory. It will be interesting where they go from here.

    Thoughts?
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    Response?
    I think it's 3 to 1 one in terms of Court of Appeal decisions. Which seems about right to me. There is no question in my mind that this law is constitutional and will be ruled so by the Supreme Court (although it is equally clear that it will be a 5-4 decision). Whether it is a good idea or not is another story. It's up to Republicans and moderate Democrats to repeal it.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Lets for a moment say that SCOTUS does rule in favor of Obamacare because of the Commerce Clause. What then will they rule in favor of next? How about guns? Will it become illegal to buy guns since they are a health hazard? Will it become illegal to sell guns across state lines? Will the federal government stop allowing guns from being imported/exported in order to be sold to citizens? You'd still have your right to own a gun. That is all that the 2nd amendment gauruntees. It doesn't gauruntee your right to buy them or sell them however. Not if the commerce clause is allowed to regulate that you have to buy something anyways. Once that road is traveled there is basically no limit that the commerce clause cannot be used for.
    You're going to have to do a little better to convince me that approval of the mandate to buy health insurance is going to effect, in any way, the legal analysis of whether or not the government can restrict the exercise of an explicit fundamental right like the right to bear arms.

    If we had a constitutional amendment saying "the right of the people to refrain from buying health insurance shall not be infringed," this case would come out completely different. But we do not.

    The fact is, the Commerce Clause is already hugely broad. It is finding the mandate unconstitutional that would drastically change just about every aspect of our government, not the other way around.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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