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Thread: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

  1. #41
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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You can already tailor your insurance to your individual needs and means, but you still have all the protections provided by your state's insurance regulations.

    Of course most people are stuck with whatever their employer provides. The health care reform law will give most people five times the choice they have now, but somehow that's a bad thing when Obama is responsible for it.
    Why settle for five times the choice. Why not unlimited choice?

    Anyway, your first sentence is incorrect.

    I cannot pick and choose what health care I want my insurance to cover. I have to take the package. That means I have to take the costs of whatever protections my State decides that I need...whether I want them or not. Those costs are what is driving up insurance premiums. Now, add to that Obamacare and you've taken away the last choice I ever had...choosing to not buy any health insurance.


    Screw Obamacare.
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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Your right a law made through the legislative process is "treasonous"?
    But wait, how is this treasonous?
    It usurps the rights and freedoms of the people for the power of the government.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    [/COLOR][/FONT]
    Read more @: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling - CNN.com

    I believe this is a huge victory for the Health Care law.. We desperately need reform and i believe this is just a small start. Although more hearings are in place i see this one as a victory. It will be interesting where they go from here.

    Thoughts?
    Comments?
    Response?
    The only thing that will matter legally is what the SC says.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You can already tailor your insurance to your individual needs and means, but you still have all the protections provided by your state's insurance regulations.

    Of course most people are stuck with whatever their employer provides. The health care reform law will give most people five times the choice they have now, but somehow that's a bad thing when Obama is responsible for it.
    obama stole most of it from the republicans plan....
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Why settle for five times the choice. Why not unlimited choice?

    Anyway, your first sentence is incorrect.

    I cannot pick and choose what health care I want my insurance to cover. I have to take the package. That means I have to take the costs of whatever protections my State decides that I need...whether I want them or not. Those costs are what is driving up insurance premiums. Now, add to that Obamacare and you've taken away the last choice I ever had...choosing to not buy any health insurance.


    Screw Obamacare.
    so you can afford a heart transplant out of your own pocket? what are we to do with people who can afford the insurance but just choose to not buy it, let them die? That would be my choice, if we are talking mature, competent adults...
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    It usurps the rights and freedoms of the people for the power of the government.
    the people ARE the govt....if the people choose it, and they have so far, then the govt must supply it...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    The core issue of this Health Care law being debated is whether or not the government has the ability to force citizens to purchase a commercial product, Health Care Insurance. I, personally have other issues with it, but that is not the topic here. The fact that it is Health Care Insurance sparks emotional reactions. If the government was making everyone buy a TV, then, hands down, pretty much everyone would be against it. But essentially, it is the same thing, both are commercial products provided by private corporations.

    In the past, States, not the Federal Government, started requiring a minimum coverage of Liability Auto Insurance. One of the primary differences between the current issue and mandatory Liability Insurance is who is making the mandate, Federal vs State. The main reason states adopted the Mandatory Liability Auto Insurance, unlike the reason someone else mentioned, was to reduce Health Care cost associated with Uninsured drivers causing accidents and not having insurance to pay for the Health Care costs that they caused. Admittedly, cost of property loss also played a role but was not the actual logic used advocates of the laws to pass these laws. I am against these laws also, as I do not believe that any level of government should be able to force people to buy a commercial product. Also, as was publicly noted in the past, after the last state adopted these laws, Auto insurance skyrocketed in costs. I have absolutely not belief that if mandatory Health Care is enforced, the cost will not skyrocket in the same manor. As to the argument that owning a vehicle is optional, this may indeed apply to some people, but, people who live in areas with little to no public transportation or inefficient public transportation, still have to get to work. Also, people in agriculture have to get their products to market, they are not given a choice in owning a vehicle, they could of course choose a different line of work, but if they all chose that option, what would we eat?

    Mandatory Home Owners Insurance? This thread is the first I have ever heard of this. Is this really a law someplace? The only requirements for me to have Home Owners Insurance comes from the Mortgage Company and the VA which backed the loan.

    For those who support this Law, keep in mind that a government agency will be the one determining if you can afford Health Care Insurance, not you. Most likely they will use a formula to determine this. Very simple, if you make X amount of money in wages then you can afford Y Health Care Insurance package with adjustments made for the number of people in your household. Your individual costs for food, housing and transportation will, most likely, not be taken into consideration, a one-size fits all formula will be used. If the government follows it previous forms, then the country will be broken down into economic regions and the cost of food, housing and transportation will be averaged for a particular region. Lets say that one region incorporates North East Texas, This would include the Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW) metro area but would also include all the small towns and rural communities in that region. Housing and Food costs are much higher in DFW than in rural areas and smaller communities, however, the government would use the average for the entire region to base it's decision on whether or not you can afford Heath Care Insurance. Even within a city, should the government decide to use only averaging inside that city, there are extreme variances in costs, especially in housing.

    Remember, an Elephant is a mouse designed to government specifications.

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    so you can afford a heart transplant out of your own pocket? what are we to do with people who can afford the insurance but just choose to not buy it, let them die? That would be my choice, if we are talking mature, competent adults...
    I am all for the right of people to make their own decisions...and reaping the benefits and consequences of their decisions.

    I will always resist the government making decisions for the people.
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    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    This thing is going to the SCOTUS no matter what happens. If Conservatives take back the presidency and the senate we have a good chance to throw Obama cae in the trash can where it belongs....
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Health care law held constitutional in latest appeals court ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    We buy car insurance for multiple reasons, to protect our investment in the car should it get damaged, to protect our assets in case we cause an accident, and because it is the responsible thing to do. It is required by law. We can only forego car insurance by not owning one.
    Same for home insuarance, protect ourselves and it is the responsible thing to do. again, we don't have to own one.
    Health insurance is the same. Our health needs to be protected, we can't make a living if we are too ill to go to work, and it is the responsible thing to do. But we do "own" our health, no choice here except suicide.
    People who refuse to buy insurance are irresponsible. And most of those who claim they can't afford it are liars.
    Companies who offer benefits do so for the reasons you state, but when we compete with overseas companies, we are behind the curve.
    Employee Benefits are archaic, and will be gone in a few more generations.
    You can forego car insurance by not driving it on public roads. Owning a car without insurance is not illegal. Driving one on public roads is.

    You can forego home owners insurance by not financing your home. Perfectly legal. Responsibility is not a legal requirement to live in the United States, otherwise we'd have to arrest 4/5s of the population, and deport them.

    Health insurance is not the same. The only way to foredo IT, if this bill passes, is to not live. And since attempting to commit suicide is also illegal...one could draw the conclusion there this, then, would completely remove legal choice on the matter. Insurance does not protect out health, WE do. Insurance is just a means of passing the cost of our health needs onto another, socializing it among a group. We do, or we SHOULD, own ourselves. That is the basis for freedom. Self ownership. If YOU don't own yourself...who does? Seems to me, it's the people that can dictate how I live.

    Most people who can't afford health insurance are people who don't get it as a perk at their job. Otherwise, trying to buy into a single family plan, from, say, Cobra, IS extremely expensive. Why? Because less people do it, and therefore there are fewer people to share the cost, should you actually need to USE said insurance. And again, responsibility is not a requirement for citizenship of this country, otherwise, we'd have to get rid of a great many people.

    What you need to try to understand is that we are talking about INSURANCE, not health care. Personally, I'm waiting to see if something like this actually DOES come about...because I am of a mind that if it does, I'm going to invest heavily in health insurance companies, prior. Because after, their stocks are going to SKYROCKET.

    Why? because they will be the next latest, government backed, government ENFORCED, business.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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