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Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

toomuchtime_

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OSAMA BIN LADEN was killed within 90 seconds of the US Navy Seals landing in his compound and not after a protracted gun battle, according to the first account by the men who carried out the raid. The operation was so clinical that only 12 bullets were fired.
The Seals have spoken out because they were angered at the version given by politicians, which they see as portraying them as cold-blooded murderers on a “kill mission”. They were also shocked that President Barack Obama announced bin Laden's death on television the same evening, rendering useless much of the intelligence they had seized.

Chuck Pfarrer, a former commander of Seal Team 6, which conducted the operation, has interviewed many of those who took part for a book, Seal Target Geronimo, to be published in the US this week.
The Seals' own accounts differ from the White House version, which gave the impression that bin Laden was killed at the end of the operation rather than in its opening seconds. Pfarrer insists bin Laden would have been captured had he surrendered.

“There isn't a politician in the world who could resist trying to take credit for getting bin Laden but it devalued the 'intel' and gave time for every other al-Qa'ida leader to scurry to another bolthole,” said Pfarrer. “The men who did this and their valorous act deserve better. It's a pretty shabby way to treat these guys.”

Cookies must be enabled | The Australian

"They were also shocked that President Barack Obama announced bin Laden's death on television the same evening, rendering useless much of the intelligence they had seized." That's because they didn't understand it was only about a photo op and a small bump in the polls to Obama.
 
Islamic law says that a body should be interred in an extremely timely manner. Can you imagine just how much more people would have doubted Osama was actually deceased had they waited until he had been interred for weeks before releasing the news of his death?

Also, the news of Obama's demise was already being reported by Al Jazeera before Obama made a formal announcement. It is silly to believe Obama's timing would have made any difference in the Intel's usefulness. I'm pretty sure more Al Qaeda operatives watch Al Jazeera than Fox, CNN or MSNBC.

Edited to add this link: http://english.aljazeera.net/video/asia/2011/05/201152161017456791.html
 
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Cookies must be enabled | The Australian

"They were also shocked that President Barack Obama announced bin Laden's death on television the same evening, rendering useless much of the intelligence they had seized." That's because they didn't understand it was only about a photo op and a small bump in the polls to Obama.

Actually, I don't think this was something that could have been kept secret no matter how hard the President and his administration tried. After all, this is the death of a guy who caused 5,000 deaths via terrorism, and the reason why we went to war in two Middle Eastern nations at the same time, and the reason why our servicemen and servicewomen are away from their homes and families, suffering from PTSD due to long deployments, and, for a some, have died in combat. An event like this isn't something easily kept hush-hush.
 
What would have not announcing his death achieved? The raid wasn't exactly the epitome of subtlety. If you're some AQ guy, and you hear a helicopter has crashed in your bosses house, and he's not answering his phone, it wouldn't take a genius to figure out what happened.
 
Islamic law says that a body should be interred in an extremely timely manner. [/url]

I guess that's why Gaddaffi (or however you spell his fricking name) was paraded around in a meat locker for a week.
 
I guess that's why Gaddaffi (or however you spell his fricking name) was paraded around in a meat locker for a week.

Which you neglect to mention was done by Libyan rebels who also wanted to humiliate him, not by U.S. servicemen who would have likely treated his body with a bit more respect.
 
Pretty disappointing. By running to the cameras before Bid Laden was cold, it pretty much made the intel gathered in his complex useless.
 
they had to announce it immediately because they lost a helicopter inside Pakistan and the mission wasn't greenlighted by the government of Pakistan. within a day, it would have been worldwide news.
 
What would have not announcing his death achieved? The raid wasn't exactly the epitome of subtlety. If you're some AQ guy, and you hear a helicopter has crashed in your bosses house, and he's not answering his phone, it wouldn't take a genius to figure out what happened.

he had no phone, and no regular contact outside of a runner style system. time to exploit would have been very limited, but it may have indeed been possible - and at the very least if there is a possibility of capture (and interrogation) it can be best to leave in the dark. when people start to panic is when they make mistakes.
 
Cookies must be enabled | The Australian

"They were also shocked that President Barack Obama announced bin Laden's death on television the same evening, rendering useless much of the intelligence they had seized." That's because they didn't understand it was only about a photo op and a small bump in the polls to Obama.

Hey. That was big news. Navy SEALS don't get to decide policy. From the accounts I read, I didn't think they were cold-blooded murderers. Intel is intel. Names/locations/yada yada yada. If they had to cancel some nefarious plans, isn't that a good thing?

Besides that, no one knows what actually happened except those who watched the video feed (and that could be somewhat distorted) and the guys who were there. Some guy who "used to be a SEAL" has no credibility to me.

Oh! And how do you know it happened when we said it did??
 
Hey. That was big news. Navy SEALS don't get to decide policy. From the accounts I read, I didn't think they were cold-blooded murderers. Intel is intel. Names/locations/yada yada yada. If they had to cancel some nefarious plans, isn't that a good thing?

if that was the result of it, certainly, however, that is likely to be among the least of the impacts. far more likely is an immediate switch in position by other AQ central trunk tier 1 individuals who now know that their locations may be compromised. so in fact it would enable nefarious planning, as it would help the nefarious planners to escape to plan another day.

:shrug: not that i know one way or the other - i'm not exactly read in to that activity and neither is anyone else on this forum.

but you are correct to note - SEAL's don't decide policy; they enact it. it could be that with news like this it was felt better to take the IO victory and get it out in the open rather than let AQ dominate the early narrative.

Besides that, no one knows what actually happened except those who watched the video feed (and that could be somewhat distorted) and the guys who were there. Some guy who "used to be a SEAL" has no credibility to me.

this guy didn't "used to be a SEAL"; once you are a SEAL, you are a SEAL. you can be in or out, but you are one for life. and this guy wasn't "a SEAL", he was the CO of ST6. that's like saying that Bill Clinton is "a politician", or stephen hawking is "a scientist". if he interviewed the dudes that went', that's pretty powerful stuff. though I would look askance at the notion of them giving interviews this early...
 
Cookies must be enabled | The Australian

"They were also shocked that President Barack Obama announced bin Laden's death on television the same evening, rendering useless much of the intelligence they had seized." That's because they didn't understand it was only about a photo op and a small bump in the polls to Obama.

Some guy claiming he used to be a SEAL has no credibility.Besides that why one earth would any actual SEAL risk exposing themselves over partisan ****? A whole **** load of terrorists may want revenge and this nut is going to go to the once group of people who could care less about secrecy. So what if some anti-war trash portray the SEAL team as murders. Anti-war trash probably think the whole entire military is a bunch of murderers.So its not really a big deal. Decent Americas appreciate the fact they snuffed out Osama Bin Laden.
 
Some guy claiming he used to be a SEAL has no credibility.Besides that why one earth would any actual SEAL risk exposing themselves over partisan ****? A whole **** load of terrorists may want revenge and this nut is going to go to the once group of people who could care less about secrecy. So what if some anti-war trash portray the SEAL team as murders. Anti-war trash probably think the whole entire military is a bunch of murderers.So its not really a big deal. Decent Americas appreciate the fact they snuffed out Osama Bin Laden.

that is what doesn't pass the smell test for me, either. I just don't see these guys going public, even though I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find that they were less than completely amused at President Obama's "and-that's-how-I-personally-hunted-down-and-brought-OBL-to-justice" announcement.
 
Islamic law says that a body should be interred in an extremely timely manner. Can you imagine just how much more people would have doubted Osama was actually deceased had they waited until he had been interred for weeks before releasing the news of his death?

And Islamic law should have carried how much weight with this issue? I'm thinking zero, but that's just me.

Also, the news of Obama's demise was already being reported by Al Jazeera before Obama made a formal announcement. It is silly to believe Obama's timing would have made any difference in the Intel's usefulness. I'm pretty sure more Al Qaeda operatives watch Al Jazeera than Fox, CNN or MSNBC.

Edited to add this link: A witness account of bin Laden's death - Asia - Al Jazeera English

It had everything do with it. Once UBL's compatriots learned that he was at room temperature, they instantly changed their MO, because they knew that we knew what he knew.
 
The witness account in the video link I posted (post #2) seems to suggest a protracted gunfight and certainly more than 12 shots being fired. The witness speaks English well and lived a few doors down from OBL's compound. He describes what he saw and heard.
 
they had to announce it immediately because they lost a helicopter inside Pakistan and the mission wasn't greenlighted by the government of Pakistan. within a day, it would have been worldwide news.

No they didn't. They could have just said "high level AQ operative." There were likely very few, even in AQ command structure that actually knew where he was.
 
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Hey. That was big news. Navy SEALS don't get to decide policy. From the accounts I read, I didn't think they were cold-blooded murderers. Intel is intel. Names/locations/yada yada yada. If they had to cancel some nefarious plans, isn't that a good thing?

Not necessarily.

With the intel, we could have monitored plots, get evidence against those who would do them, and then arrest them for breaking laws in whichever country they were operating in. So when intel can be gotten, it's best that it's gotten secretly.

While I provide that explanation, however, I don't think that using the intel was viable since the word was going to get out to Al Qaeda quickly after bin Laden's death anyways.
 
No they didn't. They could have just said "high level AQ operative." There were likely very few, even in AQ command structure that actually knew where he was.

the point is that they had to announce something quickly. i doubt they would have released the info for a while if that helicopter wasn't lost.
 
the point is that they had to announce something quickly. i doubt they would have released the info for a while if that helicopter wasn't lost.

Again, they didn't have to say it was Bin Laden. In fact, by doing so, it drew even more attention to the fact that previously unknown piece of equipment was used. If they just announced they lost a helo during a raid on a high level AQ member, that would have been an end to it. Would have run in the news for a day or two and faded away. The attention wouldn't have been there.
 
It's clear that Pakistani Intelligence knew within minutes exactly what had happened. After all, it occurred literally in their backyard. By morning, the Pakistani government would have been gnashing its teeth publicly and berating the US action. Which, actually, was exactly what it did. Al Jazeera knew within minutes about the raid and the probable target as well. If Obama hadn't made the announcement when he did, he would have been playing catch up as MSM flooded the Whitehouse with questions like, "When did you know about this, who authorized this, and why weren't the American people told about this?"

I'm not a big Obama fan, but he handled this perfectly in my opinion.
 
the point is that they had to announce something quickly. i doubt they would have released the info for a while if that helicopter wasn't lost.

that, to me, was the hugest SNAFU of the whole thing. I am amazed that they didn't have an overwatch drone with hellfires. What an obvious, "no-kidding" addition to a raid like this.
 
Pakistan knew what was going down. This is the biggest problem I have with the story now. Not that I don't understand it.

IMO the Seals know that stories like this will be spun for maximum political value. They don't care.
 
Islamic law says that a body should be interred in an extremely timely manner. Can you imagine just how much more people would have doubted Osama was actually deceased had they waited until he had been interred for weeks before releasing the news of his death?

Also, the news of Obama's demise was already being reported by Al Jazeera before Obama made a formal announcement. It is silly to believe Obama's timing would have made any difference in the Intel's usefulness. I'm pretty sure more Al Qaeda operatives watch Al Jazeera than Fox, CNN or MSNBC.

Edited to add this link: A witness account of bin Laden's death - Asia - Al Jazeera English

The above is a fact many people understandably forget about. The raid was all over Twitter within 24-Hours and the source was a Pakistani national who just happened to live in the neighborhood, heard gun fire and the explosion from the downed Stealth helicopter and jumped on the social network to give his account of what was happening.

The White House would have been very foolish to try and deny what was happening at the Bin Laden compound. I agree that they could have held back on some of the intell, i.e., stating that CIA operatives had been camping out at a nearby Pakistani residence conducting survellience or that they had collected flash drives and laptops, etc. However, I seriously doubt that the WH could have kept a lid on this raid or the killing of OBL for very long. I mean, the man's wife and children were witnesses to his assassination. Does anyone think they would keep quite about this once our Navy SEALS left?
 
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I guess that's why Gaddaffi (or however you spell his fricking name) was paraded around in a meat locker for a week.

Touche'!!! OBL got the best burial-at-sea any global Islamic terrorist could possibly hope to have received.

Gurgle, gurgle, Oscar. (It's a fish joke...in case some folks don't get it..."Oscar".)
 
the point is that they had to announce something quickly. i doubt they would have released the info for a while if that helicopter wasn't lost.

Obama couldn't wait to annouce wasting UBL. It's the single biggest positive event of his presidency.
 
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