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Thread: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Hey. That was big news. Navy SEALS don't get to decide policy. From the accounts I read, I didn't think they were cold-blooded murderers. Intel is intel. Names/locations/yada yada yada. If they had to cancel some nefarious plans, isn't that a good thing?
    if that was the result of it, certainly, however, that is likely to be among the least of the impacts. far more likely is an immediate switch in position by other AQ central trunk tier 1 individuals who now know that their locations may be compromised. so in fact it would enable nefarious planning, as it would help the nefarious planners to escape to plan another day.

    not that i know one way or the other - i'm not exactly read in to that activity and neither is anyone else on this forum.

    but you are correct to note - SEAL's don't decide policy; they enact it. it could be that with news like this it was felt better to take the IO victory and get it out in the open rather than let AQ dominate the early narrative.

    Besides that, no one knows what actually happened except those who watched the video feed (and that could be somewhat distorted) and the guys who were there. Some guy who "used to be a SEAL" has no credibility to me.
    this guy didn't "used to be a SEAL"; once you are a SEAL, you are a SEAL. you can be in or out, but you are one for life. and this guy wasn't "a SEAL", he was the CO of ST6. that's like saying that Bill Clinton is "a politician", or stephen hawking is "a scientist". if he interviewed the dudes that went', that's pretty powerful stuff. though I would look askance at the notion of them giving interviews this early...

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    Quote Originally Posted by toomuchtime_ View Post
    Cookies must be enabled | The Australian

    "They were also shocked that President Barack Obama announced bin Laden's death on television the same evening, rendering useless much of the intelligence they had seized." That's because they didn't understand it was only about a photo op and a small bump in the polls to Obama.
    Some guy claiming he used to be a SEAL has no credibility.Besides that why one earth would any actual SEAL risk exposing themselves over partisan ****? A whole **** load of terrorists may want revenge and this nut is going to go to the once group of people who could care less about secrecy. So what if some anti-war trash portray the SEAL team as murders. Anti-war trash probably think the whole entire military is a bunch of murderers.So its not really a big deal. Decent Americas appreciate the fact they snuffed out Osama Bin Laden.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Some guy claiming he used to be a SEAL has no credibility.Besides that why one earth would any actual SEAL risk exposing themselves over partisan ****? A whole **** load of terrorists may want revenge and this nut is going to go to the once group of people who could care less about secrecy. So what if some anti-war trash portray the SEAL team as murders. Anti-war trash probably think the whole entire military is a bunch of murderers.So its not really a big deal. Decent Americas appreciate the fact they snuffed out Osama Bin Laden.
    that is what doesn't pass the smell test for me, either. I just don't see these guys going public, even though I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find that they were less than completely amused at President Obama's "and-that's-how-I-personally-hunted-down-and-brought-OBL-to-justice" announcement.

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Islamic law says that a body should be interred in an extremely timely manner. Can you imagine just how much more people would have doubted Osama was actually deceased had they waited until he had been interred for weeks before releasing the news of his death?
    And Islamic law should have carried how much weight with this issue? I'm thinking zero, but that's just me.

    Also, the news of Obama's demise was already being reported by Al Jazeera before Obama made a formal announcement. It is silly to believe Obama's timing would have made any difference in the Intel's usefulness. I'm pretty sure more Al Qaeda operatives watch Al Jazeera than Fox, CNN or MSNBC.

    Edited to add this link: A witness account of bin Laden's death - Asia - Al Jazeera English
    It had everything do with it. Once UBL's compatriots learned that he was at room temperature, they instantly changed their MO, because they knew that we knew what he knew.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    The witness account in the video link I posted (post #2) seems to suggest a protracted gunfight and certainly more than 12 shots being fired. The witness speaks English well and lived a few doors down from OBL's compound. He describes what he saw and heard.

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    they had to announce it immediately because they lost a helicopter inside Pakistan and the mission wasn't greenlighted by the government of Pakistan. within a day, it would have been worldwide news.
    No they didn't. They could have just said "high level AQ operative." There were likely very few, even in AQ command structure that actually knew where he was.
    Last edited by Fishstyx; 11-08-11 at 05:51 PM.

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Hey. That was big news. Navy SEALS don't get to decide policy. From the accounts I read, I didn't think they were cold-blooded murderers. Intel is intel. Names/locations/yada yada yada. If they had to cancel some nefarious plans, isn't that a good thing?
    Not necessarily.

    With the intel, we could have monitored plots, get evidence against those who would do them, and then arrest them for breaking laws in whichever country they were operating in. So when intel can be gotten, it's best that it's gotten secretly.

    While I provide that explanation, however, I don't think that using the intel was viable since the word was going to get out to Al Qaeda quickly after bin Laden's death anyways.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    No they didn't. They could have just said "high level AQ operative." There were likely very few, even in AQ command structure that actually knew where he was.
    the point is that they had to announce something quickly. i doubt they would have released the info for a while if that helicopter wasn't lost.

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    the point is that they had to announce something quickly. i doubt they would have released the info for a while if that helicopter wasn't lost.
    Again, they didn't have to say it was Bin Laden. In fact, by doing so, it drew even more attention to the fact that previously unknown piece of equipment was used. If they just announced they lost a helo during a raid on a high level AQ member, that would have been an end to it. Would have run in the news for a day or two and faded away. The attention wouldn't have been there.

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    Re: Bitter Seals tell of killing 'Bert' Laden

    It's clear that Pakistani Intelligence knew within minutes exactly what had happened. After all, it occurred literally in their backyard. By morning, the Pakistani government would have been gnashing its teeth publicly and berating the US action. Which, actually, was exactly what it did. Al Jazeera knew within minutes about the raid and the probable target as well. If Obama hadn't made the announcement when he did, he would have been playing catch up as MSM flooded the Whitehouse with questions like, "When did you know about this, who authorized this, and why weren't the American people told about this?"

    I'm not a big Obama fan, but he handled this perfectly in my opinion.

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