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Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

And exactly what are the workers in this country going to do about it?

I hope they will vote out the Republicans, but it's anyone's guess. I'm no fan of unions, but corporate America is making a pretty good case for them.
 
Actually, he increased the national debt due to two unfunded wars and increased spending on things like the military and government expansion like medicare and TSA. Had the Bush Tax cuts not gone into effect it would've still likely increased our debt. Know what wouldn't have? Not spending more than what we take in.

"Strictly speaking, the two big tax cuts during the Bush years are estimated to total about $1.5 trillion, But many continued into the early years of the Obama presidency, and in December he cut a deal with Republicans to extend them even more, which brings us to $2.8 trillion."
Revisiting the cost of the Bush tax cuts - The Fact Checker - The Washington Post

Combining the $2.8 trillion the Bush tax cuts costs us with the cost of Tarp and Stimulus to prevent a another depression caused by deregulation, "two unfunded wars, and increased spending on things like the military and government expansion like medicare and TSA, and you can see where both way overboard spending and tax cuts really did a number on our total debt.

Actually, if we cut spending we could stop increasing debt by that alone. All it would take is to stop spending more than we spend. Even if we eliminate tax cuts for the rich, if we continue to spend more than we bring in...which we are likely to do as you admitted even if we eliminate the tax cuts on the rich...we are still going to run up the debt.

Seems to me we could cut the debt much faster with spending cuts together with 2 trillion more in increased revenues each decade.



Actually, a budget is one component that functions off of a second component. You have a set amount of revenue, and a GOOD budget bases the expenses around said revenue. Our government, under Bush AND Obama, seems incapable of doing that.

If you care to overlook that Obama was not responsible for most of the liabilities listed above, he simply inherited them. And actually, we have a choice of a set amount of revenue with the current tax cuts in place or a couple trillion dollars more to apply to our debt each decade.



Increasing revenue in no way, shape, or form guarantees that you won't run a debt. Not spending more than you take in absolutely does assure you won't run a debt.

No one I know is proposing eliminating the Bush tax cuts without also cutting spending. I certainly don't support that.



Yes, you're correct. If you cut revenues, without cutting spending, you have debt...because you didn't set up your budget in accordance to what your revenues are. This is the issue we've had with EVERY House (who passes the budget) and President (who signs the budget) combination for the past 4 decades save for once when we had a Republican House and a Democratic President.


Its called trickle down economics.

Yep, the one Obama signed off on, supported, and stated needed to be passed because you can't raise taxes during this kind of economy, despite the fact he had majority control in both houses. That one.

You can't cut spending during an economic recovery for the same reason you can't raise taxes during an economic recovery. Both will have to be done soon however, after recovery from the Bush Recession.
 
You make that claim a lot, where is the data to back it up?

Not even counting the lost revenues from the Reagan tax cuts to the rich or his increased military spending, add the $2.8 trillion dollars in lost revenue the Bush tax cuts cost us from inception to date (see reference above), the $3 trillion the unfunded wars cost us, not to mention the cost of Tarp and Stimulus to prevent another depression from the deregulation.
 
Irrelevant in that you're comparing a political movement to a body of government.

The NFL is almost twice as popular as OWS. That stat is about as relevant as what you're saying. Congress historically polls low in approval polls and isn't the same thing as a political movement.

They are both dealing with the same economic issues, and are very relevant to the 99%. They are generating public debate regarding progressive issues that neither of the main parties were addressing adequately.


The Tea Party had a fair bit of effect on the 2010 election, in part because it got hottest right as the election was heating up. That said, even then attempting to compare Tea Party polling to congressional polling would be a bit pointless save to say something that should've been common sense...that the "hot" political movement at the moment is more popular than a body of government that has polled poorly for more than a decade now regardless of who controlls it.

As it also correlates with a record high percentage of voters who think their own representative doesn't deserve reelection (66%), it seems very significant to the upcoming election to me.

Yep, its definitely got people talking. So did the Sandusky molestation news. Does that mean you think the public must support molestation because they talked about it a whole lot? Yes, OWS is a news story and thus gets people talking...that has little to nothing to do with its favorable or unfavorable rating.

Seeing how we now have an 66% of Americans who agree we need to discontinue the Bush tax cuts, Congress has the lowest approval rating in the last 34 years, and 66% of voters don't think their own representative deserves reelection, dang if I can see how it is hurting.
 
And Catawba's already admitted that even if we taxed the rich we'd still spend so much that we'd run a debt.

Please don't speak for me, especially if you are going to get my full meaning.

What I am saying is that to pay off 30 years of debt caused by too much tax cuts for the rich and too much wasteful spending on the military/industrial complex is going to take 30 years of increased tax rates for the rich an spending cuts to the military/industrial complex.
 
On our way down the destructive road of progressive incrementalism.


j-mac

See that's the thing, our tax system is less progressive than it was then. That is where your "incrementalism" theory falls to pieces.
 
I suggest you concern yourself with the effective tax rates rather than the marginal rates.

I am talking about effective tax rates. The effective tax rates for Capital gains were much higher then today, and the effective income tax rate was also higher than today. And we weren't then providing tax breaks for outsourcing American jobs.
 
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Out of the two idiot traps, I think OWS is the better of the two but like how I believe the Tea Partiers are idiots for believing their taxes will go up (they won't would have gone down if the people they voted for in Congress voted for it) and want to reign in government spending but hell no don't touch their medicare and social security, in the same light the OWS people do equally asinine things. A guy holding up an American flag (with the stars being corporate logos) will be doing it while tweeting on his iPod and drinking Starbucks. THAT'S an asshole. Many of these people want more than just say, what the Germans or Japanese have they want it without hard work. I've worked with Japanese and Germans and they don't **** around. Hey, sure they got great benefits but the world doesn't go round with everyone working 32 hour work weeks.
 
Out of the two idiot traps, I think OWS is the better of the two but like how I believe the Tea Partiers are idiots for believing their taxes will go up (they won't would have gone down if the people they voted for in Congress voted for it) and want to reign in government spending but hell no don't touch their medicare and social security, in the same light the OWS people do equally asinine things.

OWS people have unexplained holes in their financial policy recommendations? Last I heard, they just stink and get in the way.


A guy holding up an American flag (with the stars being corporate logos) will be doing it while tweeting on his iPod and drinking Starbucks. THAT'S an asshole.

You apparently have no idea how much of an asshole people can be. If THAT's an asshole, you've lived a very sheltered life.

Many of these people want more than just say, what the Germans or Japanese have they want it without hard work. I've worked with Japanese and Germans and they don't **** around. Hey, sure they got great benefits but the world doesn't go round with everyone working 32 hour work weeks.

I'm not reading back to figure out what the hell that's about. I'm sure Japanese and German people are fine, hard working people. I would, nonetheless, venture to guess that there are, in fact, some who **** around.
 
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I am talking about effective tax rates. The effective tax rates for Capital gains were much higher then today, and the effective income tax rate was also higher than today. And we weren't then providing tax breaks for outsourcing American jobs.

The rates you showed in the table were marginal rates.
 
Well, even the question of "right" or "wrong" is subjective. I think it is interesting to have these conversations, rather than the usual black and white conversations. If that were the only reason to have an opinion, then boards like this wouldn't have any use would they?

j-mac

I think conversations between those who have reasons for their opinions are always productive. Those who just - in effect - bleat slogans are not worth hearing, and the question of what most of them 'think' seems of no very great interest except in Media Studies, if there.
 
Out of the two idiot traps

This is a prime example that gives away the so called "moderates" that think somehow they are above those out there that make up the "working class". Calling people idiots never works for any solution, and serves to divide. So after this opening to set up your self fulfilling prophecy of divided extremes, why should anyone read beyond this 6 word opening to your post?

I think OWS is the better of the two but like how I believe the Tea Partiers are idiots for believing their taxes will go up

Really? Tell me, if the President and congressional drones talk about $250K being the threshold, but all indications are that nothing will be done to extend the current tax rates under the Bush plan, which would raise rates for everyone, not just those with higher earnings, then we are being lied to are we not? I have already shown where my taxes would go up by some $3k + should this happen, and I am nowhere near $250K brother.

In fact, taxes that hit me in every facet of life. Gas prices up, Food up, Home energy up, other goods and services all up due to different tax and regulation that this administration has dropped in under the radar. They are crooks, and liars, and destined to be swept out with the trash in about a year if we can hold on.

(they won't would have gone down if the people they voted for in Congress voted for it)

Could you clarify this please?

and want to reign in government spending but hell no don't touch their medicare and social security

I've got some news for ya. Since I was the age of 16 and worked at a job that was paid for by writing a check that taxes came out of, I paid into these systems, with the promise that they were going to be there when I got old enough to retire. Now, because these thieves over the years have stolen that money, I have to be demonized for wanting them to make good on their promise, and all that money I have put in is just gone? Oh and BTW, I am not rich at all. In fact, at 49 I am just now within the recent years making above the median income in the country, so think before you type some snark back at me thinking I am rich or something.

in the same light the OWS people do equally asinine things. A guy holding up an American flag (with the stars being corporate logos) will be doing it while tweeting on his iPod and drinking Starbucks. THAT'S an asshole.

Marxism is unashamed of its hypocrisy.

Many of these people want more than just say, what the Germans or Japanese have they want it without hard work.


Germans or Japanese? Are you kidding? Japan is still dealing with their own lost decade with stimulus after stimulus that failed, and Germany is poised to go down with the Euro in as little as 2 weeks if nothing is done, and you think that what we want?


I've worked with Japanese and Germans and they don't **** around.

America has the hardest working educated workforce in the world.

Hey, sure they got great benefits but the world doesn't go round with everyone working 32 hour work weeks.

Who's doing that? I work 60 to 70 hrs per week. I think you have it backwards.

j-mac
 
I think conversations between those who have reasons for their opinions are always productive. Those who just - in effect - bleat slogans are not worth hearing, and the question of what most of them 'think' seems of no very great interest except in Media Studies, if there.

It seems quite presumptive of you to judge others reasons over an anonymous message board. Are you psychic? Or just conceded?


j-mac
 
It seems quite presumptive of you to judge others reasons over an anonymous message board. Are you psychic? Or just conceded?


j-mac

'Conceited'? No - it is the fact that the brainwashed all say much the same thing in much the same words about what is currently being put about by the Noise Machine. And when challenged they turn to abuse, racial or national.
 
'Conceited'? No - it is the fact that the brainwashed all say much the same thing in much the same words about what is currently being put about by the Noise Machine. And when challenged they turn to abuse, racial or national.

You're incredibly conceited.
 
I hope they will vote out the Republicans, but it's anyone's guess. I'm no fan of unions, but corporate America is making a pretty good case for them.

So driving out business benefits whom? Vote out the Republicans like the electorate did in 2009? How did that work out for the country? The results speak for themselves but you ignore them.
 
Not even counting the lost revenues from the Reagan tax cuts to the rich or his increased military spending, add the $2.8 trillion dollars in lost revenue the Bush tax cuts cost us from inception to date (see reference above), the $3 trillion the unfunded wars cost us, not to mention the cost of Tarp and Stimulus to prevent another depression from the deregulation.

I see, so you believe 17 million jobs would have been created without the tax cuts? Prove it? 2.8 trillion dolars lost due to the Bush tax cuts? Prove it? You seem to think tax cuts are an expense to the govt. That if foolish. You make wild speculation but no verifiable non partisan proof of your statements.
 
'Conceited'? No - it is the fact that the brainwashed all say much the same thing in much the same words about what is currently being put about by the Noise Machine. And when challenged they turn to abuse, racial or national.


Ok, then I am sure you would be easily able to type something other than constant condemnations, and derision about your fellow posters in here, and come up with some enlightening pronouncements that lead everyone to have that ah ha moment.

Care to share, or just take the easy road and bitch about others?


j-mac
 
The discussion was about Federal Income taxes and funding for the Federal Govt which comes out of that money. That is intellectual dishonesty all trying to make a point which is wrong.

No it wasn't. Go back and re-read. You tend to try and change the discussion when your trapped. :2funny:
 
Similarly, if we didn't spend more than we took in there wouldn't be a debt either.

And Catawba's already admitted that even if we taxed the rich we'd still spend so much that we'd run a debt.

Going back to my point, it doesn't matter how much you raise revenue...if you spend more than you are bringing in you're going to run a debt.

Don't deny that. If you're apying attention, I suggest we cut spending and rasie taxes. A two pronged approach. It takes both. The trouble with both sides is the tendency to focus too much on only one prong. Do you think I'm wrong about this?
 
On our way down the destructive road of progressive incrementalism.


j-mac

yes, and conservatives are facists. The stereotypes are deeply set, but just as wrong on both sides. However, to see this, you must put down the koolaid.

:roll:
 
Don't deny that. If you're apying attention, I suggest we cut spending and rasie taxes. A two pronged approach. It takes both. The trouble with both sides is the tendency to focus too much on only one prong. Do you think I'm wrong about this?


Then you should have no problem seeing the spending cuts happen first, and be verified before ANY tax increases of any sort are proposed...See we've seen this lip service before from liberals like yourself, and frankly we just don't trust the meme anymore.

yes, and conservatives are facists. The stereotypes are deeply set, but just as wrong on both sides. However, to see this, you must put down the koolaid.

huh...If Conservatives are fascists then tell us why it is Obama that is taking over businesses, and practicing quasi fascism?

Hmmm....You're just wrong Joe....Sorry, try again.


j-mac
 
Then you should have no problem seeing the spending cuts happen first, and be verified before ANY tax increases of any sort are proposed...See we've seen this lip service before from liberals like yourself, and frankly we just don't trust the meme anymore.

How about at the same time? Believe it or not, laws can be written in whcih it happens.

huh...If Conservatives are fascists then tell us why it is Obama that is taking over businesses, and practicing quasi fascism?

Hmmm....You're just wrong Joe....Sorry, try again.


j-mac

:2funny: :2funny:

You miss the point and repeat a falsehood. I don't care who you are; that's funny.

:2funny:
 
So driving out business benefits whom? Vote out the Republicans like the electorate did in 2009? How did that work out for the country? The results speak for themselves but you ignore them.

So far it's worked out pretty well, despite nearly uniform opposition from the side that left us this mess to begin with.
 
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