Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

AdamT said:

For Vets Returning to US, Green Energy Jobs Await - ABC News

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Any of them go to work for Solyndra or Solar One?

Conservative said:

Any of them go to work for Solyndra or Solar One?

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No idea. Why? Did you think the green energy field would be the first in the history of the world that didn't count failures among its successes?

The number of projects providing solar energy more than doubled in the U.S. from 2008 to 2010. In that time, the amount of solar energy generated increased from enough to power 1.4 million homes in 2008 to 3.2 million homes in 2010. Wind energy has increased 1.5 times in capacity over the same time, able to power 39 million homes in 2010, up from 25 million in 2008.

Renewable energy has been growing fast in Ohio. The number of new projects approved by the state in the first 10 months of 2011 is more than triple that of all of 2010. And of the 2,797 new constructions approved this year, all but 24 were solar power arrays.

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AdamT said:

No idea. Why? Did you think the green energy field would be the first in the history of the world that didn't count failures among its successes?

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Why? Because if they did they would be unemployed today.

If solar energy is so good then let the private sector develop it, not the Federal Govt. It is easy to point out gaudy numbers when the base is so low to begin with. Solar has its place just not now and certainly not with taxpayer dollars.

What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty.

Conservative said:

Why? Because if they did they would be unemployed today.

If solar energy is so good then let the private sector develop it, not the Federal Govt. It is easy to point out gaudy numbers when the base is so low to begin with. Solar has its place just not now and certainly not with taxpayer dollars.

What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty.

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But it's AOK with you that federal subsidies to the oil and coal industries dwarf green energy subsidies, right?

You know, I hate to say this, but you're closer to being right than most would admit.

In previous generations, you found a job, worked hard, moved up the ladder of success and retired. That was the norm. Anything else was the exception.

Nowadays, if you're lucky enough to get a job, it will be a low wage position with no upward mobility. You could literally be answering phones at a receptionist desk for 30 years. 30 years ago, that was unheard of. You might start at receptionist, but you'd eventually move into office management. My neighbor, who is a staunch republican/christian church going lady, actually told me that our generation is the first generation to not have it better than our parents. My dad, at his age, was making more 30 years ago than I am today. He got one job, and kept moving up, now he's been there 42 years and has been promoted to second to the top. His salary reflects it, too. He has a college degree in engineering.

Me, I got a college degree in finance and insurance. I couldn't get a job and the one I got was punching numbers on a computer for 8 dollars an hour. It didn't pay the bills. I wound up moving back in with my parents because of underemployment. I got another job, pumping jet fuel at an airport, for even less, 6.15 an hour to start, moved to 7.15/hr after I finished training. Well, low and behold, that didn't pay the bills either. So I had to move back in with my parents and saved up and went back to school. NOW, at the age of 32, I'm finally making a living wage but working extremely long hours to do it. The job is ok, benefits are decent, but the hours and lack of a schedule that I can work around are ripping me apart. I have friends I haven't seen since I began working here as I'm always here. Unfortunately, there is no upward mobility here either, the guy I answer to is part owner of the company. The only way I'll make more is if they expand and thus give me more responsibility.

But at least I was able to purchase a house and move out on my own.

iliveonramen said:

Come on J-mac....it's pretty obvious to anybody that those guys are doing some form of counter protests to the occupy crowd which is why the lady comes up and points out that you can't feed a family on the majority of those adds.

The fact is, beyond partisan stunts like this (I can show you plenty of people going around making Tea Partiers look like idiots and racists) there are many more unemployed people than jobs in this country. Maybe if we had low unemployment rates you could make the argument that people just don't want to work. The fact is most people are stuck with part time jobs so the number of unemployed and underemployed is huge in this country.

You worked at a job and moved up the ranks. Cases like yours is what made this country great. The fact the new generation isn't experiencing that is a shame and you'd think you support them getting their opportunity.

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VanceMack said:

Its funny to watch the liberals who were just OUTRAGED...OUTRAGED I tells ya!!! over Bush's connection to oil companies (while the conveniently ignore democrats investment with oil...banks...brokers...and having unions balls deep in those democrats) now easily dismissing the Obama connection to campaign contributions and the different loans to the failed green companies. Funny...comical...and yet...pathetic...all at the same time.

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It was funny 20 years ago. 10 years ago it was just "typical". Now it's just sad, and causes one to lose faith in humanity in general. We really are medium sized, dumb animals.

dontworrybehappy said:

You know, I hate to say this, but you're closer to being right than most would admit.

In previous generations, you found a job, worked hard, moved up the ladder of success and retired. That was the norm. Anything else was the exception.

Nowadays, if you're lucky enough to get a job, it will be a low wage position with no upward mobility. You could literally be answering phones at a receptionist desk for 30 years. 30 years ago, that was unheard of. You might start at receptionist, but you'd eventually move into office management. My neighbor, who is a staunch republican/christian church going lady, actually told me that our generation is the first generation to not have it better than our parents. My dad, at his age, was making more 30 years ago than I am today. He got one job, and kept moving up, now he's been there 42 years and has been promoted to second to the top. His salary reflects it, too. He has a college degree in engineering.

Me, I got a college degree in finance and insurance. I couldn't get a job and the one I got was punching numbers on a computer for 8 dollars an hour. It didn't pay the bills. I wound up moving back in with my parents because of underemployment. I got another job, pumping jet fuel at an airport, for even less, 6.15 an hour to start, moved to 7.15/hr after I finished training. Well, low and behold, that didn't pay the bills either. So I had to move back in with my parents and saved up and went back to school. NOW, at the age of 32, I'm finally making a living wage but working extremely long hours to do it. The job is ok, benefits are decent, but the hours and lack of a schedule that I can work around are ripping me apart. I have friends I haven't seen since I began working here as I'm always here.

But at least I was able to purchase a house and move out on my own.

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I don't think too many people are arguing about this (though of course some are). I think the biggest divide comes from debating the reason behind the trend. I certainly wish I could still support a family of four working in a warehouse from 8-5. The only way I've found to get ahead is to start my own business and that has huge risks associated with it.

dontworrybehappy said:

You know, I hate to say this, but you're closer to being right than most would admit.

In previous generations, you found a job, worked hard, moved up the ladder of success and retired. That was the norm. Anything else was the exception.

Nowadays, if you're lucky enough to get a job, it will be a low wage position with no upward mobility. You could literally be answering phones at a receptionist desk for 30 years. 30 years ago, that was unheard of. You might start at receptionist, but you'd eventually move into office management. My neighbor, who is a staunch republican/christian church going lady, actually told me that our generation is the first generation to not have it better than our parents. My dad, at his age, was making more 30 years ago than I am today. He got one job, and kept moving up, now he's been there 42 years and has been promoted to second to the top. His salary reflects it, too. He has a college degree in engineering.

Me, I got a college degree in finance and insurance. I couldn't get a job and the one I got was punching numbers on a computer for 8 dollars an hour. It didn't pay the bills. I wound up moving back in with my parents because of underemployment. I got another job, pumping jet fuel at an airport, for even less, 6.15 an hour to start, moved to 7.15/hr after I finished training. Well, low and behold, that didn't pay the bills either. So I had to move back in with my parents and saved up and went back to school. NOW, at the age of 32, I'm finally making a living wage but working extremely long hours to do it. The job is ok, benefits are decent, but the hours and lack of a schedule that I can work around are ripping me apart. I have friends I haven't seen since I began working here as I'm always here. Unfortunately, there is no upward mobility here either, the guy I answer to is part owner of the company. The only way I'll make more is if they expand and thus give me more responsibility.

But at least I was able to purchase a house and move out on my own.

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If you don't mind my asking, what did you go back to school for, and what is your current job? By the hours, it sounds like retail. You can make decent money at retail, and so long as you're not lazy/stupid, you WILL make management in retail. But you end up salaried, and working 55 hours a week or more, for what most people would have made in 35-40 hours a week 30 years ago. And those hours are at all times of the day, one morning you have to be in at 6am, then the next you show up at 1pm till close, usually around 11pm or later, and then, the next day, back in at 6am or so. Killer.

AdamT said:

No idea. Why? Did you think the green energy field would be the first in the history of the world that didn't count failures among its successes?

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Let's hear of some of those successes among its failures and how much each job cost.

There have been far more jobs, unsubsidized jobs, created in the energy sector related to gas and oil then there have been in the Green sector. How much does it cost the American taxpayer for each of these "green' jobs?

Grant said:

Let's hear of some of those successes among its failures and how much each job cost.

There have been far more jobs, unsubsidized jobs, created in the energy sector related to gas and oil then there have been in the Green sector. How much does it cost the American taxpayer for each of these "green' jobs?

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All of the oil and gas jobs are subsidized in one form or another.

I don't have the answers for your green energy questions, and they wouldn't matter much to me if I did. I think we need to invest in green energy for security and environmental reasons. That it creates some jobs is a bonus.

Oil is a limited resource. This is a fact, that requires no numbers to support, only some basic thought. It takes millions of years to generate oil, and very specific circumstances. We use it far faster than it can possibly be made. Ignoring the release of carbon atoms into our atmosphere for a moment, this is still a huge problem. Our entire economy runs on oil. Most of our products are made using nothing but oil. Our entire lifestyle is one with oil. If we can't find a replacement, we're dead meat, literally. We WILL die. Factor in the the carbon atoms, which were captured by plants billions of years ago and then buried under the sea, to become fossilized into what we call oil...and we accelerate our doom. Or at least, in this case, the doom of millions upon millions. Those carbon atoms were taken out of the system, so to speak, and store...and now we use them to generate energy, so they are being unstored, released back into the system...which of course, will have the affect of returning out system back to the state it was in when they were first captured.

Enough sunlight hits the earth every hour to power every single device we have for an entire year. Anyone who would NOT want to find a way to harness that is a damn fool.

Misterveritis said:

Actually there is quite a bit of Marxist philosophy involved. Or, if you prefer Marxism-Leninism.

The progressive income tax is Marxist. Most of this nation has embraced it, knowing nothing else. In the long run it is the way to move the nation from individual responsibility toward central planning, small scale socialism, then European style socialism, then European style economic collapse.

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:2funny: :roll: :roll:

One has to drink a lot of koolaid to see it the way you suggest here. Sorry. I can't take this post seriously.

Conservative said:

Why? Because if they did they would be unemployed today.

If solar energy is so good then let the private sector develop it, not the Federal Govt. It is easy to point out gaudy numbers when the base is so low to begin with. Solar has its place just not now and certainly not with taxpayer dollars.

What is it about liberalism that creates such stupidity.

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There, I modified it slightly for more accuracy.

KevinKohler said:

Oil is a limited resource.

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Nothing in this world is infinite. The problem is, how much do we have left? We're discovering new fields of oil and gas all the time, so how much do we have? Will we run out? One day I guess we will, but when? We know for sure we have at least 80 years of oil left at our current consumption rate. But that doesn't take into account any new discoveries that will surely be made between now and then.

Oh yea, we don't know how oil is made. There are platforms offshore that used to make nothing, and are now producing huge amounts of oil.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38645

I checked with my father who works offshore and is in charge of the production of all offshore oil and gas in his district, and he confirmed this article.

The only FACT is that we don't know how much we have left, but it's a lot. And estimates are getting higher and higher all the time. Will we run out of oil in our lifetime? Only if you are very young, possibly not even born yet. Please note this article goes into detail about a different method of production of crude oil inside the earth other than dinosaur squeezin's. One that is sustainable into the foreseeable future.

AdamT said:

But it's AOK with you that federal subsidies to the oil and coal industries dwarf green energy subsidies, right?

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Subsidies allow oil companies to keep more of what they earned and deduct actual expenses. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with loan guarantees made to green energy companies. I don't think you know what subsidies really are.

AdamT said:

All of the oil and gas jobs are subsidized in one form or another.

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Barrack Obama just cost the US economy upwards of 20,000 real jobs by moving the decision on the Keystone pipeline until after the next election. This cowardly political act is costing the US people millions of dollars. or more.

I don't have the answers for your green energy questions, and they wouldn't matter much to me if I did. I think we need to invest in green energy for security and environmental reasons. That it creates some jobs is a bonus.

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If China keeps lending you the money to waste on different Wonderland fantasies then that will be great, but I'm sure the Greeks were once saying something similar. The USA is now the most indebted nation in world history and the Liberals think this is not such a bad thing, that their insightful business savvy will see them right in the end.

Even Lewis Carroll would not believe this possible.

Grant said:

Barrack Obama just cost the US economy upwards of 20,000 real jobs.

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Sure he did. If you uncritically swallow the ridiculous claims made by the pipeline company. I understand that cigarettes are good for you, too.

AdamT said:

Sure he did. If you uncritically swallow the ridiculous claims made by the pipeline company. I understand that cigarettes are good for you, too.

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You only buy what you are told from the leftwing zealots? What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty?

Conservative said:

You only buy what you are told from the leftwing zealots? What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty?

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What is it about conservatism that makes people so incredibly gullible?

TransCanada’s claims that an estimated 20,000 construction and manufacturing jobs would be created if the Obama administration approves the controversial Keystone XL pipeline are “significantly inflated,” according to a new analysis of the project released today.

The assessment, by the Cornell University Global Labor Institute, concludes that “the construction of Keystone XL will create far fewer jobs in the U.S. than its proponents have claimed and may actually destroy more jobs than it generates.

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Fuel Fix » Report: Keystone XL job claims are exaggerated

AdamT said:

What is it about conservatism that makes people so incredibly gullible?



Fuel Fix » Report: Keystone XL job claims are exaggerated

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Gullible? You see, I don't care what you make or pay in taxes. I have no problem with you making as much as you possibly can and am never jealous of what you or anyone else has. I believe you are the gullible one by believing that there aren't personal consequences for poor choices. How are conservatives gullible?

I am still waiting for you to explain why the Senate is stonewalling debate on the 15 bills passed by the House to create jobs and then how can you or anyone say this is a do nothing House?

AdamT said:

Sure he did. If you uncritically swallow the ridiculous claims made by the pipeline company. I understand that cigarettes are good for you, too.

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And what ridiculous claims were these? Do you have any links? Do you understand anything at all about pipelines?

Cigarettes? Please get back to Reality Land.

AdamT said:

What is it about conservatism that makes people so incredibly gullible?



Fuel Fix » Report: Keystone XL job claims are exaggerated

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Considering the underlying source of the link you provided, the CUGLI report, it would support both being gullible. The TransCanada claims are based on a Perryman study that made multiple 'assumptions' as to labor levels to construcion AND manufacturing. The Cornell report stated that they didn't accept the premise of the Perryman assumptions then made assumptions of their own concerning construction only. The Cornell study stated that they had 'serious doubts' that the manufactured products would be domestically produced but provided flimsy reasons for their doubt.

AdamT said:

What is it about conservatism that makes people so incredibly gullible?
Fuel Fix » Report: Keystone XL job claims are exaggerated

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So you remain convinced that building a pipeline and refining oil in the United States will not create jobs?

In a statement, API called the Cornell report’s conclusion “preposterous.” The trade group added:

“The Keystone XL pipeline promises to be a massive job creator, and to attempt to stop its approval is an affront to the 25 million Americans who are either unemployed or underemployed.”

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That's about it.

It's difficult to believe that anyone would be against oil moving into the United States and have it being refined there but if the President says no, until after the next election anyway, then I suppose the decision is made and the American people will pay. The same sort of short sighted decision was made regarding Alaskan oil as well. It's as though someone is out to deliberately destroy the US economy.

The Chinese are keen on this oil while the American president punts. This sort of ignorance has stopped being amusing and is becoming dangerous. America is rapidly losing the credibility it once had for decades, and that inevitably makes for a more dangerous world. Meanwhile you can run your cars with little beanie propellers on top I suppose

dontworrybehappy said:

. . .My dad, at his age, was making more 30 years ago than I am today. He got one job, and kept moving up, now he's been there 42 years and has been promoted to second to the top. His salary reflects it, too. He has a college degree in engineering.

Me, I got a college degree in finance and insurance. I couldn't get a job . . .

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Perhaps it is time to protest against Big Education for providing so very little at such a great cost.

Engineers are in demand. They almost always are. And when the USA is done there will be other countries where an engineer can go and still earn a good living. You got a worthless degree in finance. My oldest daughter got a worthless degree in Mass Communications. You both had the same experience after graduation.

If schools told potential students that their proposed degrees would be essentially worthless perhaps more students would pursue hard skills.

Misterveritis said:

Perhaps it is time to protest against Big Education for providing so very little at such a great cost.

Engineers are in demand. They almost always are. And when the USA is done there will be other countries where an engineer can go and still earn a good living. You got a worthless degree in finance. My oldest daughter got a worthless degree in Mass Communications. You both had the same experience after graduation.

If schools told potential students that their proposed degrees would be essentially worthless perhaps more students would pursue hard skills.

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There is no doubt that Blue Collar jobs should be more respected and good trade workers will always be in demand.

This Keystone Pipeline was favored by the Teamsters and, despite the controversy on numbers, would certainly have created thousands of Blue Collar jobs.

AdamT said:

Fuel Fix » Report: Keystone XL job claims are exaggerated

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From your referenced piece: