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Thread: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

  1. #651
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And exactly what are the workers in this country going to do about it?
    I hope they will vote out the Republicans, but it's anyone's guess. I'm no fan of unions, but corporate America is making a pretty good case for them.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, he increased the national debt due to two unfunded wars and increased spending on things like the military and government expansion like medicare and TSA. Had the Bush Tax cuts not gone into effect it would've still likely increased our debt. Know what wouldn't have? Not spending more than what we take in.
    "Strictly speaking, the two big tax cuts during the Bush years are estimated to total about $1.5 trillion, But many continued into the early years of the Obama presidency, and in December he cut a deal with Republicans to extend them even more, which brings us to $2.8 trillion."
    Revisiting the cost of the Bush tax cuts - The Fact Checker - The Washington Post

    Combining the $2.8 trillion the Bush tax cuts costs us with the cost of Tarp and Stimulus to prevent a another depression caused by deregulation, "two unfunded wars, and increased spending on things like the military and government expansion like medicare and TSA, and you can see where both way overboard spending and tax cuts really did a number on our total debt.

    Actually, if we cut spending we could stop increasing debt by that alone. All it would take is to stop spending more than we spend. Even if we eliminate tax cuts for the rich, if we continue to spend more than we bring in...which we are likely to do as you admitted even if we eliminate the tax cuts on the rich...we are still going to run up the debt.
    Seems to me we could cut the debt much faster with spending cuts together with 2 trillion more in increased revenues each decade.



    Actually, a budget is one component that functions off of a second component. You have a set amount of revenue, and a GOOD budget bases the expenses around said revenue. Our government, under Bush AND Obama, seems incapable of doing that.
    If you care to overlook that Obama was not responsible for most of the liabilities listed above, he simply inherited them. And actually, we have a choice of a set amount of revenue with the current tax cuts in place or a couple trillion dollars more to apply to our debt each decade.



    Increasing revenue in no way, shape, or form guarantees that you won't run a debt. Not spending more than you take in absolutely does assure you won't run a debt.
    No one I know is proposing eliminating the Bush tax cuts without also cutting spending. I certainly don't support that.



    Yes, you're correct. If you cut revenues, without cutting spending, you have debt...because you didn't set up your budget in accordance to what your revenues are. This is the issue we've had with EVERY House (who passes the budget) and President (who signs the budget) combination for the past 4 decades save for once when we had a Republican House and a Democratic President.

    Its called trickle down economics.

    Yep, the one Obama signed off on, supported, and stated needed to be passed because you can't raise taxes during this kind of economy, despite the fact he had majority control in both houses. That one.
    You can't cut spending during an economic recovery for the same reason you can't raise taxes during an economic recovery. Both will have to be done soon however, after recovery from the Bush Recession.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You make that claim a lot, where is the data to back it up?
    Not even counting the lost revenues from the Reagan tax cuts to the rich or his increased military spending, add the $2.8 trillion dollars in lost revenue the Bush tax cuts cost us from inception to date (see reference above), the $3 trillion the unfunded wars cost us, not to mention the cost of Tarp and Stimulus to prevent another depression from the deregulation.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Irrelevant in that you're comparing a political movement to a body of government.

    The NFL is almost twice as popular as OWS. That stat is about as relevant as what you're saying. Congress historically polls low in approval polls and isn't the same thing as a political movement.
    They are both dealing with the same economic issues, and are very relevant to the 99%. They are generating public debate regarding progressive issues that neither of the main parties were addressing adequately.


    The Tea Party had a fair bit of effect on the 2010 election, in part because it got hottest right as the election was heating up. That said, even then attempting to compare Tea Party polling to congressional polling would be a bit pointless save to say something that should've been common sense...that the "hot" political movement at the moment is more popular than a body of government that has polled poorly for more than a decade now regardless of who controlls it.
    As it also correlates with a record high percentage of voters who think their own representative doesn't deserve reelection (66%), it seems very significant to the upcoming election to me.

    Yep, its definitely got people talking. So did the Sandusky molestation news. Does that mean you think the public must support molestation because they talked about it a whole lot? Yes, OWS is a news story and thus gets people talking...that has little to nothing to do with its favorable or unfavorable rating.
    Seeing how we now have an 66% of Americans who agree we need to discontinue the Bush tax cuts, Congress has the lowest approval rating in the last 34 years, and 66% of voters don't think their own representative deserves reelection, dang if I can see how it is hurting.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And Catawba's already admitted that even if we taxed the rich we'd still spend so much that we'd run a debt.
    Please don't speak for me, especially if you are going to get my full meaning.

    What I am saying is that to pay off 30 years of debt caused by too much tax cuts for the rich and too much wasteful spending on the military/industrial complex is going to take 30 years of increased tax rates for the rich an spending cuts to the military/industrial complex.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    On our way down the destructive road of progressive incrementalism.


    j-mac
    See that's the thing, our tax system is less progressive than it was then. That is where your "incrementalism" theory falls to pieces.
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I suggest you concern yourself with the effective tax rates rather than the marginal rates.
    I am talking about effective tax rates. The effective tax rates for Capital gains were much higher then today, and the effective income tax rate was also higher than today. And we weren't then providing tax breaks for outsourcing American jobs.
    Last edited by Catawba; 11-29-11 at 01:54 AM.
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Out of the two idiot traps, I think OWS is the better of the two but like how I believe the Tea Partiers are idiots for believing their taxes will go up (they won't would have gone down if the people they voted for in Congress voted for it) and want to reign in government spending but hell no don't touch their medicare and social security, in the same light the OWS people do equally asinine things. A guy holding up an American flag (with the stars being corporate logos) will be doing it while tweeting on his iPod and drinking Starbucks. THAT'S an asshole. Many of these people want more than just say, what the Germans or Japanese have they want it without hard work. I've worked with Japanese and Germans and they don't **** around. Hey, sure they got great benefits but the world doesn't go round with everyone working 32 hour work weeks.
    "Were going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and thats crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Out of the two idiot traps, I think OWS is the better of the two but like how I believe the Tea Partiers are idiots for believing their taxes will go up (they won't would have gone down if the people they voted for in Congress voted for it) and want to reign in government spending but hell no don't touch their medicare and social security, in the same light the OWS people do equally asinine things.
    OWS people have unexplained holes in their financial policy recommendations? Last I heard, they just stink and get in the way.


    A guy holding up an American flag (with the stars being corporate logos) will be doing it while tweeting on his iPod and drinking Starbucks. THAT'S an asshole.
    You apparently have no idea how much of an asshole people can be. If THAT's an asshole, you've lived a very sheltered life.

    Many of these people want more than just say, what the Germans or Japanese have they want it without hard work. I've worked with Japanese and Germans and they don't **** around. Hey, sure they got great benefits but the world doesn't go round with everyone working 32 hour work weeks.
    I'm not reading back to figure out what the hell that's about. I'm sure Japanese and German people are fine, hard working people. I would, nonetheless, venture to guess that there are, in fact, some who **** around.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-29-11 at 04:51 AM.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I am talking about effective tax rates. The effective tax rates for Capital gains were much higher then today, and the effective income tax rate was also higher than today. And we weren't then providing tax breaks for outsourcing American jobs.
    The rates you showed in the table were marginal rates.

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