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Thread: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

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    Whichever side of the isle you are on, you should find opinion polls to be highly untrustworthy.
    Bottom-line, people are stupid. A poll can be completely flipped around depending on how it is phrased.
    For instance, they show in this article the same poll result as OP said but it also shows another where the question was made much specific and it shows that the Occupiers are viewed much more favorably than unfavorably.
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/08/po...y-wall-street/
    I don't think that necessarily means anything either though.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You support economic justice? How wonderful! Mankind has been searching for it for thousands of years and the OWS crowd has finally found such a thing!

    Would you kindly share this formula with us?
    Yes, and this would be a hell of start:

    "PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" H.R. 1489: Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011 (GovTrack.us) ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act#Repeal . Vote Here #1

    USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list. Vote Here #2

    CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media. Vote Here #3

    CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.Vote Here #4

    CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm. Vote Here #5

    CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS. Vote Here #6

    CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control. Vote Here #7

    ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". THE CORPORATION [2/23] Birth - YouTube . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight. Vote Here #8"

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...post-manifest/
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #533
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Do some research....Particularly during the progressive era of the early 20s on, and it is true that some socialist ideals have been ingrained in our system extra constitutionally, however that doesn't make it right, or proper. I'd say when you mature a bit, your public school system education will be broadened to include hopefully true critical thinking.

    j-mac
    Soo all you have to say is "when you get older"? Bravo! Educate me then if im soo narrow minded... Teach me!


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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Sounds awfully Elitist to me...
    Awwww....Too bad...Don't like it when it comes back toward the libs eh? Need a tissue?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Soo all you have to say is "when you get older"? Bravo! Educate me then if im soo narrow minded... Teach me!

    Find a Library.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Jesus! I am trying to determine that for God's sake! It is extremely frustrating when you won't answer a single question definitively, but rather dodge, and generalize to the point where you can come back and say that you never said anything. It is like trying to have a conversation with Jello.
    J, when I get random questions that are not connected to what I'm discussing, it makes me curious. It is especally odd to me when you seem to suggest you know my answer. So I asked you why? Instead of answering that question, you went off about liberal beliefs, agains assuming you know my answer and seem to want to argue with someone other than me.

    Again, this makes me curious as to why? You can look up the research as well as I can, but to ask me a question, is it too much to ask that it be related to the discussion I'm having? Or to at least give some rationale for why you're asking me?

    BTW, you migth start with this question: Do you believe a service based economy is better than a manufactoring economy?

    I never said you did say anything, I asked your opinion on Service v. Manufacturing based economies and you asked me what I meant, I then tried to start off the conversation with an opinion, and now you totally misrepresent what I say, and build a straw argument, never answering the question, and that is my fault?!!! $#!$#$# man! What the hell is the matter with you dude?

    j-mac
    Actually, you did not. You might want to go back and re-read what you wrote. This was your first comment to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by J
    Joe, are there any studies on service based economies, vs. Manufacturing based economies?
    I answered with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo
    Do we manufacture here any more? Or are we calling making a cheese burger manufacturing?

    However, as this is off what I was dicussing, what do you think you're getting out? Before I go look for studies for you, I'd like to have some idea as to why.
    You then responded with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by J
    Well, I was just curious as to what studies are out there that make educators like yourself that I am sure bases your opinions on the emperical works out there that show that a service based private sector, is more stable than a manufacturing based one. Also, why would you say basically, if I am understanding this correctly from you that: "Most know that government is not a magic cure or fix..." When the entirety of the argument from liberals today seems to be that government unrestrained is the answer?


    j-mac
    To which I answered:

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo
    Whether I believe that or not is secondary to the point I never said I did. Perhaps you can tell me why you make this leap?

    And you don't really listen to the liberal argument j. Like so many, you argue with what you want to believ eit is rather than actually listen to the argument. I agree that it is easier to argue a strawman, but it is hard for us to reply when you're not addressing what we actually say.

    Anyway, please mark for me where I said anything about manufacturing or service based economies. If you can, I'll respond to what I said.
    As for my opinion, which you should have started by asking for, I think we would be better off with a stronger manufactoring base.

    Now, any reason for switching the topic?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J, when I get random questions that are not connected to what I'm discussing, it makes me curious. It is especally odd to me when you seem to suggest you know my answer. So I asked you why? Instead of answering that question, you went off about liberal beliefs, agains assuming you know my answer and seem to want to argue with someone other than me.

    Again, this makes me curious as to why? You can look up the research as well as I can, but to ask me a question, is it too much to ask that it be related to the discussion I'm having? Or to at least give some rationale for why you're asking me?

    BTW, you migth start with this question: Do you believe a service based economy is better than a manufactoring economy?






    Actually, you did not. You might want to go back and re-read what you wrote. This was your first comment to me:



    I answered with this:



    You then responded with this:



    To which I answered:



    As for my opinion, which you should have started by asking for, I think we would be better off with a stronger manufactoring base.

    Now, any reason for switching the topic?
    My thoughts are that when we in this country started changing from a manufacturing base we lost that which was our stability, and ability to recover, to that of a country that depends on others to make stuff for us.

    IMHO, both parties of politicians were responsible for this shift, but today with the demonizing of corporations, and business, coupled with strangling regulations are send an ever increasing amount of American jobs, and wealth overseas. This was set up by this President in particular as class warfare, and stoked by those wishing to tear down capitalism.

    Now, those with money can escape when it gets to that point, but people like me will be the ones who suffer with the consequences regardless of the rhetoric. So, ranting aside, I guess I'd like to say that the madness of this redistribution crap has to stop right now!

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    My thoughts are that when we in this country started changing from a manufacturing base we lost that which was our stability, and ability to recover, to that of a country that depends on others to make stuff for us.

    IMHO, both parties of politicians were responsible for this shift, but today with the demonizing of corporations, and business, coupled with strangling regulations are send an ever increasing amount of American jobs, and wealth overseas. This was set up by this President in particular as class warfare, and stoked by those wishing to tear down capitalism.

    Now, those with money can escape when it gets to that point, but people like me will be the ones who suffer with the consequences regardless of the rhetoric. So, ranting aside, I guess I'd like to say that the madness of this redistribution crap has to stop right now!

    j-mac
    I disagree on some of that. Business will leave even if we cartered to their every tax and regulatory desire. The fact is, laobor is cheaper, by a lot, and they don't have to worry about benefits. Those are a much larger problme than either taxes of regulations.

    The issue with regulations has to be whether a particular regulation is needed or not. If it deals with safety, the environment, those are important and needed. It doesn't help any of us to have unsafe workplaces or to posin our air and water. Because other countries are short sighted is not an argument that we should be.

    And no one is doing more to promote class warfare than Fox. Seriously, listen to them for a moment.

    The fact is through corporate welfare and our fears of business leaving, we have set polices that favor business in all kinds of ways. This has contributed to a shrinking middle class. This is a problem. A real problem. And as the past has shown, business cannot be appeased enough to overcome super low wages and not having to have benefits, whihc is the major attraction to being overseas. Taxes and regulations are much small issues in terms of reasons for them leaving. If we eliminated all taxes and all regulations, which would be very bad for us overall, they would still be leaving. To assure they stay, we would have to both lower our wages to the level they pay overseas and accept that benefits must be removed from the work place.

    No one is really taking redistribution but your side as a strawman J. In fact, by favoring business, you're doing as much redistribtion as anyone. Your side has learned a few buzz words, and spend far too much time repeating them and far too little time actually looking at the facts and hsitory of how we got where we are. Workers have in fact taken it in the shorts for the most part. Business has in fact been cartered to in all kinds of ways. Regulations actually have a history, and a good number are needed. We can go back to rivers catching fire and air being unbreathable, but that wouldn't really help us much.

    The crap I think that needs to stop, is the mindless regrugitation of mindless talking points. We have problems that need to be tackled. There are no silver bullets or easy answers. And no ideaology alone can make everything better. Once we realize that, we can put aside partisanship and focus on solving the problems.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    My thoughts are that when we in this country started changing from a manufacturing base we lost that which was our stability, and ability to recover, to that of a country that depends on others to make stuff for us.

    IMHO, both parties of politicians were responsible for this shift, but today with the demonizing of corporations, and business, coupled with strangling regulations are send an ever increasing amount of American jobs, and wealth overseas. This was set up by this President in particular as class warfare, and stoked by those wishing to tear down capitalism.

    Now, those with money can escape when it gets to that point, but people like me will be the ones who suffer with the consequences regardless of the rhetoric. So, ranting aside, I guess I'd like to say that the madness of this redistribution crap has to stop right now!

    j-mac
    There has never been a shift in the manufacturing base. That is an oft-repeated myth. What has happened is that, through computerization and the introduction of robotic assembly, manufacturing employs many fewer people than it did in the past. It's unfortunate for the employment situation, but an inevitable result of technological advancement. In other words, we are victims of our own productivity. Complaining about it is like saying that we never should have invented the automobile because it put carriage wheel manufacturers out of business.




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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, and this would be a hell of start:
    I always find it funny you keep posting a list of demands put forward by ...

    1) A defunct and no longer functioning committee of the New York General Council
    2) continued on by a group (Coupmedia)

    ... and while putting them forward you always cherry pick which ones you want to put. For example, I notice you don't ever put this demand which is currently the highest vote getter in regards to what demands OWS should have:

    17. Re-investigate The Attacks of September 11th 2001 with full media coverage and disclosure

    More and more evidence is being released to the public surrounding the suspicious circumstances surrounding 911. This measure would be included in the list of demands to show that the original investigation was significantly flawed. Demand investigation into the source of secret funding for CIA occupation programs since WWII, the cover up of the trillions of dollars that aided in the collapse of the Soviet Union and may have ultimately instigated the 911 attacks as well as their cover-up.
    Odd, I don't EVER see you pointing out that a TRUTHER styled demand is the highest vote getter for all the OWS Demands. But wait, I thought you said they were just about pushing the public conversation about wealth disparity?

    Or how about the #3 vote getter, yet another clear example of OWS having a solid and direct message focused on improving the public discourse about the disparity of wealth and cooperation of the Government and Big Business.

    2. Repeal of the Patriot Act

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." — Fourth Amendment to the Constitution
    Forty-five days after 9/11, Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Act without reading it. This new law was supposed to protect you from terrorism, but it has really left you unprotected against lawless federal agents. The Patriot Act contains numerous violations of the Fourth Amendment. It gives federal agents vast new powers that have been abused to investigate innocent Americans.
    Oh wait, nope...got that wrong, its another thing that has absolutely 0 to do with that.

    So what about the ridiculous claims by conservatives that the OWS people are just a bunch of free loaders demanding free stuff? I mean, that's ridiculous right? That's just conservative propoganda. This is about wealth disparity, not people just saying "Gimme stuff right"....right?

    Well, not exactly if we go by the votes being gathered on the list of demands that Catawba keeps pointing to. The 10th highest vote getter for the demands "Free education kindergarden through College".

    Catawba keeps posting about revolving door legislation and revamping the security and exchange commission. But know what ranks higher than both of them based on voting? Repealing capital punishment, because that's TOTALLY about the wealth disparity in this country.

    Catawba's continual posting of the "demands" OWS makes is no more valid list of demands representing the movement than if I posted up a list of demands from some random OWS member from some other message board. Even the voting by the one OWS site that actually has attempted to run with the ball that the NYGA dropped doesn't back up the rhetoric Catawba continually tries to push. Hell, their number one issue is ****ing 9/11 truth. Say what you want about the Tea Party, but when they voted for their actual official "demands" in the Contract from America I don't remember a birther related demand being the #1 vote getter.

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