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Thread: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

  1. #181
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Would you explain marginal rates versus effective rates please?
    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Why do you behave as if you are unaware of the difference between marginal rates and effective rates? I believe you do. So are you intentionally misrepresenting?
    Marginal tax rate is the top rate you pay, effective is the overall rate you pay. So, like if you make $15k and there is a 0-$10k tax bracket with a rate of 5% and a $10k-$20k bracket with a rate of 10%, your marginal tax rate is 10%, your effective is 6.67% ((5% * $10k + 10% * $5k) / $15k).

    Not sure how you think that is misleading or related to what I am saying at all. Can you explain?

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Of course, like today, people didn't pay the full rate, but the wealthy did pay a much higher effective rate than they do now. And the country has never been stronger than it was during that period.
    What makes you think that is true?

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Marginal tax rate is the top rate you pay, effective is the overall rate you pay. So, like if you make $15k and there is a 0-$10k tax bracket with a rate of 5% and a $10k-$20k bracket with a rate of 10%, your marginal tax rate is 10%, your effective is 6.67% ((5% * $10k + 10% * $5k) / $15k).

    Not sure how you think that is misleading or related to what I am saying at all. Can you explain?
    Yes. you mix and match. I believe you know that as the top marginal rate came down the exemptions that kept the effective rate reasonable were taken away. So even through the top marginal rate came down the effective tax rate increased somewhat. If what I am saying is true, and if you know it then your are being deceptive.

  4. #184
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Yes. you mix and match. I believe you know that as the top marginal rate came down the exemptions that kept the effective rate reasonable were taken away. So even through the top marginal rate came down the effective tax rate increased somewhat. If what I am saying is true, and if you know it then your are being deceptive.
    The only historical data I'm finding on historical effective tax rates only goes back to 1979, but it shows the top 1% paying 37% in 1979 and 27% today. It also shows corporations paying 14% in 1979 and 9% now. The middle's effective tax rates dropped substantially during that period too, from 19% to 14%. And that's just half the time range I'm talking about. If you have data going back to the 60s, please post it, but it seems like the effective tax rate story is consistent with what you would expect to result from a slashing of the top tax rates.

  5. #185
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The only historical data I'm finding on historical effective tax rates only goes back to 1979, but it shows the top 1% paying 37% in 1979 and 27% today. It also shows corporations paying 14% in 1979 and 9% now. The middle's effective tax rates dropped substantially during that period too, from 19% to 14%. And that's just half the time range I'm talking about. If you have data going back to the 60s, please post it, but it seems like the effective tax rate story is consistent with what you would expect to result from a slashing of the top tax rates.
    Could you please post that historical data for reference? (assuming it's a link) Thank you in advance

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Could you please post that historical data for reference? (assuming it's a link) Thank you in advance
    Of course- Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households
    http://ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of...ividual-1.html

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    What makes you think that is true?
    Um, history? Personal recollection? Statistical data? Actually a little bit of each.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Or to keep it simple, just the top marginal rates going back to 1913: Historical Top Tax Rate

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then you would have been wrong.
    No - that would be right. The push to a double income did not get its big push until the ME ME ME attitude took over in the 80's and that was Reagan. Ronnie wasthe one who blew the budget and brought back rising public debt.
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Federal government hasn't actually grown much as a portion of GDP since the great society. It goes up and down as we get in and out of wars and the GDP booms and busts, but it's almost always been between 30% and 35% since the great society. The only exception is the Bush calamity of launching two simultaneous wars and crashing the economy at the same time. That knocked it up to 42% briefly. It's going back down again now as the economy picks up and we pull out of the wars somewhat.

    Raising taxes certainly needs to be part of any deficit reduction program, yes. IMO we need to do three things- raise taxes on the rich, cut entitlement spending and cut military spending. With the deficit the size it is today, there really isn't any way we can close it if we leave any of those three off the table.
    Total Government Employment Since 1962

    In raw numbers, not a % of GDP, the number of federal employees has been going down since Reagan left office

    1979 4939
    1980 4965
    1981 4982
    1982 4972
    1983 5039
    1984 5088
    1985 5256
    1986 5228
    1987 5301
    1988 5289
    1989 5292
    1990 5234
    1991 5152
    1992 4931
    1993 4758
    1994 4620
    1995 4475
    1996 4354
    1997 4226
    1998 4196
    1999 4135
    2000 4129
    2001 4132
    2002 4152
    2003 4210
    2004 4187
    2005 4138
    2006 4133
    2007 4127
    2008 4206
    2009 4430
    2010 4443
    I may be wrong.

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