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Thread: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Does the current system rely on current workers taxation in order to pay for those benefits of those no longer working and or contributing themselves? That sir is the definition of a ponzi scheme.

    J-mac
    As noted above, that's simply not true. 1) You don't seem to know the definition of a ponzi scheme. 2) Your definion would make every single thing done by the government a ponzi scheme.

    I know you want to buy into this. But it is simply koolaid for the faithful and not much more. You can oppose SS with legitmate reasons. You don't need to go all nutter.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by FFDP666 View Post
    well...thats not true, by pure definition its not a ponzi scheme, there are some similarities because your getting money from other people blah blah blah but on that basis then the entire government is a ponzi scheme anytime you get a government service.
    Not all. Just those where the government invents public entitlements not outlined as in the scope of the federal government to, or taxpayer to be mandated to fund. Think Article 1, Section 8.

    J-mac
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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not all. Just those where the government invents public entitlements not outlined as in the scope of the federal government to, or taxpayer to be mandated to fund. Think Article 1, Section 8.

    J-mac
    Different argument. You're pulling a Conservative here trying to switch the paramaters of the debate.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As noted above, that's simply not true. 1) You don't seem to know the definition of a ponzi scheme. 2) Your definion would make every single thing done by the government a ponzi scheme.

    I know you want to buy into this. But it is simply koolaid for the faithful and not much more. You can oppose SS with legitmate reasons. You don't need to go all nutter.

    Give us the definition then, and please point out how ss is different.

    J-mac
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    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Give us the definition then, and please point out how ss is different.

    J-mac
    No, Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme | Deseret News

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Ok, it isn't exactly like a ponzi scheme because you have the choice to buy into a ponzi scheme, SS you do not. In a ponzi scheme, you use the people in the 2nd round of investment to pay off the 1st round. The 3rd round to pay off the 2nd and 1st round and so on. In SS, you use the current workers to pay off the 1st round workers. As the 2nd round workers enter SS, the current workers pay off the surviving 1st and 2nd round workers. The only other difference I can see is that if you die while you own a share a ponzi scheme, your family may get a payout. If you die without ever drawing on SS after you paid into it for 40 years, your family won't see a dime.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    If you die without ever drawing on SS after you paid into it for 40 years, your family won't see a dime.
    That's how insurance works. OTOH, if you live to be 100 you may draw more than you paid in. It's insurance -- not a ponzi scheme.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Give us the definition then, and please point out how ss is different.

    J-mac
    You've received two now, one from me explaining the difference and another above. From the more recent one:

    Ponzi schemes are frauds in which the operator promises or credits investors with exceptional returns, supposedly based on the performance of the assets purchased. The organizer acquires no assets, pays maturing promises or other withdrawals with funds from new depositors and skims money off the top to support lavish.

    (Snip)

    Social Security is an insurance system in which people make contributions while they work and receive benefits when retired or disabled. Payroll taxes, interest income on bonds in the trust funds and, since 1983, revenue from taxes on benefits fund the annuities.

    The system has lower costs per benefit dollar than private insurance systems. The poverty rate among the elderly is below that of the general population, thanks largely to Social Security.

    Social Security pays the bulk of benefits out of current contributions. To remain almost entirely self-financing, the system runs surpluses now to fund deficits later because the ratio of those paying in to those drawing out, which stood at 4.0 in 1965, is declining — it's projected to fall to 2.1 in 2035 before stabilizing.

    No, Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme | Deseret News

    Now, you can pretend you haven't been answered, but the fact is you have.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That's how insurance works. OTOH, if you live to be 100 you may draw more than you paid in. It's insurance -- not a ponzi scheme.
    Fantastic, government mandated insurance. I think that will take the conversation in another direction. Just another program that should not be at the Federal level.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Poll: Voters Viewing Occupy Wall St. Unfavorably

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Fantastic, government mandated insurance. I think that will take the conversation in another direction. Just another program that should not be at the Federal level.
    That explains the 3.7 trillion dollar Federal Govt. and the goal of liberalism, create a nanny state where there are no consequences for poor choices and no such thing as personal responsibility issues.

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