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Thread: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

  1. #251
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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I never expected you to address the question, AdamT, and of course Karl would be unable, but I was hoping that there mght be someone who could address these questions.

    You don't get embarrassed by the childish antics of the Left?
    I don't know what antics you're referring to. Perhaps some examples?

  2. #252
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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT, replying to another View Post
    I don't know what antics you're referring to. Perhaps some examples?
    Here's one

    During the November 9 broadcast of Fox News' Fox & Friends, co-host Gretchen Carlson claimed the administration is "grinching 15 cents out of your pocket potentially" by adding a tax to the price of live Christmas trees. During the segment, an on-screen graphic said, "Grinched By The Government."
    Obama hates Christmas!!!!


    Carlson later noted that the program is intended to boost sales of live trees and "the majority of Christmas tree farms are in favor of" the new program.
    Oh. Nevermind


    Source: "Grinching": Right-Wing Media Attacks Obama For Industry-Promoted Christmas Tree Tax | Media Matters for America

  3. #253
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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I haven't really heard of this story until just now, but are you claiming that the obama admin was not adding a 15 cent tax to live christmas trees? Or just that since the live christmas tree industry (AKA Big Christmas Tree (in the spirit of big oil, big business, etc)) were in favor of the tax and additional government spending means that it's not a story/republicans shouldn't be complaining? Or that you believe that Gretchen claiming that the government would be "grinching 15 cents by increasing taxes" was the equivalent of "Obama hates Christmas"
    Last edited by buck; 11-09-11 at 09:40 PM.

  4. #254
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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I haven't really heard of this story until just now, but are you claiming that the obama admin was not adding a 15 cent tax to live christmas trees? [...]
    I don't do remedial reading, buck... perhaps you can find someone locally.

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I don't do remedial reading, buck... perhaps you can find someone locally.
    Well, the MM story seems to indicate that since the growers support the tax, that it shouldn't even be a story. I disagree with that. Just because the industry supports the tax and increased spending, doesn't make it less news worthy or less of an issue for people that don't want taxes increased and/or govt spending increased and/or pay more for a christmas tree..
    Last edited by buck; 11-09-11 at 10:04 PM.

  6. #256
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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Well, the MM story seems to indicate that since the growers support the tax, that it shouldn't even be a story. I disagree with that. Just because the industry supports the tax and increased spending, doesn't make it less news worthy or less of an issue for people that don't want taxes increased and/or govt spending increased and/or pay more for a christmas tree..
    Clearly you agree with Fox that Obama is a Grinch. Interesting. Not surprising, but interesting.

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, well your threshold for what is 'debunked' and what isn't, may be far different than mine, or anyone else.



    Ok, I look forward to it...Have a good day at work.
    ?
    j-mac
    Ok. Crazy work this week, sorry it took so long.

    Im gonna try to hit both points.

    Part of the OWS effort was to come together and decide what exactly they believe is wrong and then decide what they think ought to be done about it.

    That's what the whole finger waving, peoples mic, general assembly thing is all about. Its a consensus process, there's a wiki if you're interested in how it works.

    There was also a conscious effort to NOT come out with anything concrete. For two reasons.

    One, it denies the spin machinery an anchor.

    Two, it causes people to speculate. And when they speculate they talk about the subject of their speculation.

    No one in this country TALKS to each other about what's important anymore. We bitch about the other side to people on our side or we yell talking points back and forth at each other over the fence.

    I had hoped the OWS phenomenon would lead to a reasonable discussion about issues many grown up intelligent people are seriously concerned about. Looks like that's not going to happen.

    In a nutshell, they are concerned about the unhealthy relationship between our govt and big money.

    Capitalisms only a couple of centuries old.

    Our particular form less than that, iirc.

    OWS feels its time for patches and upgrades.

    As far as debunked, somebody posted a list and reminded me of a couple I forgot.

    First on this ACORN thing, Grim posted a video as proof that said no such thing. The interviewee did indeed say she thought Nycc was paying people to protest. However, she was saying that NYCC was paying people to DISRUPT the protests. And she clearly states no one told her they were paid by NYCC. She actually uses the term "provocateur".

    Much hay has been made about "antisemitism" at OWS. The "official" video from a jewish group showed two guys. The same black guy photographed from multiple angles. The raw video is posted on the board here. Including protesters actively denouncing him as not part of the protest. At least one article claims he has been there with the same kind of sign since earlier this summer. The second guy is "lotion man", worth looking up. Complete jackass, local knucklehead. The video also had two signs, one with a comment on the Israeli "occupation" and some picture of netanyahu with a knife or something in his head(?).

    A photo of a sign saying "**** the Troops" and a picture of a guy ****ting on the flag (with the same sign in the background) was identified by Mattilac as coming from an anti war protest several years ago.

    An article was posted claiming one of the protests lost its permit for public masturbation. The article mentions complaints from a local business that such had been seen, but the permit was pulled for some compliance issue.

    A HUGE homeless presence has descended on OWS protests all over the country, including multiple reports of cops and shelters sending homeless people to Occupations. Some claiming cops have actually brought troublemakers to the sites (haven't seen proof of this).

    Knowing this is the case, reports of criminal activity and god knows what else should be questioned as to whether they represent actual actions of protesters or just homeless alcoholics and drug addicts, and probably sex offenders, knowing how many are homeless.

    There's at least one claim of "sexual assault of a minor" that involves a fourteen year old who admitted she told the guy she was 19.

    I'm sure there's more that I forgot. The point is that, all the violence and vandalism in Oakland and elsewhere aside, too many of the "reports" on the Occupations are questionable, outright falsehoods, or ridiculous spin.

    And that sucks, because this country is in bad shape, and our elected officials and their sponsors are NOT going to do anything to upset their gravy train.

    I think we may have missed an opportunity to come together and fix what's broken.

    Leaving us farther apart as a people, at a time when we can't afford to keep playing partisan games.

    And that's just sad and depressing.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    These things have to be pointed out as they are happening but blanket statements about Fox News rather than a specific item does not further any debate. Fox News is staffed by people with a variety of opinions but when many are accustomed to one points of view ranging from the far left to center left then hearing anything outside of those parameters may seem difficult to adjust to. It's quite likely that those on the right have varying opinions as but that doesn't mean that they are being lied to. It's quote possible to have different opinions arising from the same set of facts, though sometimes these facts may need a second look for their nuances,



    If there is a 'smear campaign' then let's see the evidence.
    I DO watch conservative media, Fox and radio.

    Not as much as I used to as I get a lot of news here. I noticed I hear about stuff HERE before it shows up in MSM most of the time.

    I do this because I am seriously concerned about the pervasiveness of persuasive messaging and propaganda in our national discourse.

    Also, because in order to actually have a conversation it is necessary to understand other peoples perspectives. How the hell can I debate someone if I have no idea where they're coming from?

    And see my response to j-mac about the "smear campaign".
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  9. #259
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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Clearly you agree with Fox that Obama is a Grinch. Interesting. Not surprising, but interesting.
    I think there are legitimate complaints against Fox. That they reported on the government imposing a new 15 cent tax on Christmas trees is not one of them. Wether the industry is in favor or not, doesn't change my opinion on the tax or new spending.

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I think there are legitimate complaints against Fox. That they reported on the government imposing a new 15 cent tax on Christmas trees is not one of them. [...]
    That wasn't the report... nobody cares about 15 cents added to the price of a Christmas tree. How could something like that be national news?

    The report was that Obama was a Grinch. And it was a coordinated attack... um, I mean report.

    The only way you can not get it is to not want to get it; of course, that was obvious several posts ago.

    Bah Humbug… Obama Imposes 15˘ Tax on Christmas Trees | The Gateway Pundit


    Last edited by Karl; 11-09-11 at 10:44 PM.

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