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Thread: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

  1. #171
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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    OK, you win and make a compelling argument. ACORN is DEAD. NYCC is not involved at all with the protest OR paying protestors. They have not been shredding old ACORN data. Whoever the Fox reporter is that furnished this report is a LIAR and should be fired. And OH YEAH, there is insufficient interest in those who have resources AND support community groups to financially support a lawsuit against Fox that based on you compelling argument they would win outright and further a TON of money (boy would that help their efforts).

    Further, you would not talk to Fox but you think someone who was allegedly fired would refrain from commenting.

    But I don't understand the 'proven a negative thing yet. Can you further expound?
    YOu don't understand the proving the negative thing? Maybe an example will help; prove that you aren't secretly employed by Fox News.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You're defending the story and you didn't even know that ACORN filed Chapter 7 almost a year ago to the day?

    Thus the story is a lie.
    In fact many ACORN affiliates just changed their names but the same people stayed on.
    The fact that the story relies entirely on an unnamed source simply means that it is dubious at best.
    So the story has changed from being a lie to being "dubious". That's progress of a sort.

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    YOu don't understand the proving the negative thing? Maybe an example will help; prove that you aren't secretly employed by Fox News.
    OH...I see now...the 'source' referenced in the article was employed by Fox...got it now.

    Like I posted in the other thread...WTF difference does it make:Ultimately this makes no difference. So what a few of the protestors are being paid to protest. How will this make the movement more successful? If it IS true it will somewhat negate those who claim the protest to be ‘grass root’. Do you REALLY believe there is no ‘big’ money behind this movement somewhere? Even if it is, again what difference does that make?

    If OWS wants to punish Wall Street do they REALLY think their discomfort will compel WS bankers to change the way they do business? Do they think their ‘camp out’ will compel someone (SEC, DOJ, BHO) to investigate and subsequently convict those who broke the law?

    Stupid…just stupid.


    Of course if NYCC is receiving federal funds (like ACORN was) it would change the story some but considering the current DOJ...NOTHING will come of it. Pitiful

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact many ACORN affiliates just changed their names but the same people stayed on.


    So the story has changed from being a lie to being "dubious". That's progress of a sort.
    The point is that there is no longer a national organization. ACORN no longer exists. Thus it was a lie to claim that "ACORN officials" did x, y, or z. That's not even debatable.

    The fact that the whole story is unsourced casts doubt on the rest of the claims.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    OH...I see now...the 'source' referenced in the article was employed by Fox...got it now.

    Like I posted in the other thread...WTF difference does it make:Ultimately this makes no difference. So what a few of the protestors are being paid to protest. How will this make the movement more successful? If it IS true it will somewhat negate those who claim the protest to be ‘grass root’. Do you REALLY believe there is no ‘big’ money behind this movement somewhere? Even if it is, again what difference does that make?

    If OWS wants to punish Wall Street do they REALLY think their discomfort will compel WS bankers to change the way they do business? Do they think their ‘camp out’ will compel someone (SEC, DOJ, BHO) to investigate and subsequently convict those who broke the law?

    Stupid…just stupid.


    Of course if NYCC is receiving federal funds (like ACORN was) it would change the story some but considering the current DOJ...NOTHING will come of it. Pitiful
    No, you don't seem to get it. You can't prove a negative. That's why the burden is on the accuser. In this case NYCC has denied all of the allegations and no identifiable person has contradicted them.

    Personally I don't think there was big money behind this, or in fact any real organizing principle. It grew up organically. If some organization had been behind it the protesters would be sending a clear and consistent message, which they clearly have not done.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, you don't seem to get it. You can't prove a negative.
    You're right...I don't get it. Your presumption 'can't prove a negative' is based on YOU not believing the Fox news story, that it is wrong. This non-belief is based, I guess, on YOUR belief that they are not a reputable information source. But because YOU don't trust them doesn't mean the story is false but merely YOU don't believe it. Further I believe most of the story so why should it be my task to provide evidence to support my belief that it is true OTHER than the original story which is what we are discussing. You could find an article, interview or other that refutes the Fox news story, hopefully from a 'more reputable source'. Why is this something 'you can't do'?

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    You're right...I don't get it. Your presumption 'can't prove a negative' is based on YOU not believing the Fox news story, that it is wrong. This non-belief is based, I guess, on YOUR belief that they are not a reputable information source. But because YOU don't trust them doesn't mean the story is false but merely YOU don't believe it. Further I believe most of the story so why should it be my task to provide evidence to support my belief that it is true OTHER than the original story which is what we are discussing. You could find an article, interview or other that refutes the Fox news story, hopefully from a 'more reputable source'. Why is this something 'you can't do'?
    No, you still don't get it. You can't prove a negative. You want NYCC to PROVE that it didn't pay people to protest. How would they even go about that, other than simply denying it, which they've already done? Can you prove that YOU didn't pay the protesters?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    OK, you win and make a compelling argument. ACORN is DEAD. NYCC is not involved at all with the protest OR paying protestors. They have not been shredding old ACORN data. Whoever the Fox reporter is that furnished this report is a LIAR and should be fired. And OH YEAH, there is insufficient interest in those who have resources AND support community groups to financially support a lawsuit against Fox that based on you compelling argument they would win outright and further a TON of money (boy would that help their efforts).

    Further, you would not talk to Fox but you think someone who was allegedly fired would refrain from commenting.

    But I don't understand the 'proven a negative thing yet. Can you further expound?
    Apparently you've never heard of the First Amendment, you should look it up some time, it part our Constitution. It's meant to protect the free press. There is nothing in the report that is slanderous, so the chances of winning anything are slim to none.

    If workers were fired and documents shredded it must have be reported elsewhere, but I see it nowhere.


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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The point is that there is no longer a national organization. ACORN no longer exists. Thus it was a lie to claim that "ACORN officials" did x, y, or z. That's not even debatable.
    What's not debatable is that you re not fully aware of the story.

    ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers And Shredding Documents, After Exposed As Players Behind Occupy Wall Street Protests | Fox News

    The first three paragraphs clearly states the following.

    "The former New York office for ACORN, the disbanded community activist group, is playing a key role in the self-proclaimed “leaderless” Occupy Wall Street movement, organizing “guerrilla” protest events and hiring door-to-door canvassers to collect money under the banner of various causes while spending it on protest-related activities, sources tell FoxNews.com.

    The former director of New York ACORN, Jon Kest, and his top aides are now busy working at protest events for New York Communities for Change (NYCC). That organization was created in late 2009 when some ACORN offices disbanded and reorganized under new names after undercover video exposes prompted Congress to cut off federal funds.

    Former New York office for ACORN, the disbanded community activist group, is playing a key role in 'leaderless' Occupy Wall Street movement, organizing 'guerrilla' protest events and hiring canvassers to collect money for various causes while spending it on protest-related activities, sources tell FoxNews.com.

    NYCC’s connection to ACORN isn’t a tenuous one: It works from the former ACORN offices in Brooklyn, uses old ACORN office stationery, employs much of the old ACORN staff and, according to several sources, engages in some of the old organization’s controversial techniques to raise money, interest and awareness for the protests".

    Read more: EXCLUSIVE: ACORN Playing Behind Scenes Role In 'Occupy' Movement | Fox News


    The fact that the whole story is unsourced casts doubt on the rest of the claims.
    They may have undergone a name change but for all intents and purposes it is the same people involved, even using the same offices.

    You might be interested to know, by the way, that the Occupy Wall Street movement began in Canada.

    Campaigns | Adbusters Culturejammer Headquarters

    And did you know that some of these protesters are being paid?
    Last edited by Grant; 11-06-11 at 01:45 AM.

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    Re: ACORN Officials Scramble, Firing Workers and Shredding Documents...

    NEWS FLASH!

    Ice cream found at former Ben and Jerrys store.

    The sign says "Crazy Cones".

    But they're not fooling anyone.

    They're still selling ice cream.

    Sources say cones from the original Ben and Jerrys are being used.

    Sources also told Dreyers News that when it was revealed that ice cream was still being sold under a different name, several employees were fired and all records of Ben and Jerrys involvement were shredded.

    It has been reported that Cool Cones is paying people to carry signs advertising ice cream.

    What are they trying to hide?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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