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Occupy Oakland: City braces for general strike

They DID turn their anger to those who have caused all of this. Banksters got Glass-Steagal evicerated, and then put peoples' money into hedgefunds, and other bad investments, which collapsed. Some people lost their life savings, but banksters gave themselves bonuses for collapsing the American economy. Here is the result:

296515_242510969137046_234525306602279_636047_708665037_n.jpg

well. I"m glad they at least are mature enough to take their anger out by threatening the $12-an-hour tellers.
 
We are in revolutionary times.

If that is true, it is in the infancy stage. It remains to be seen if this gets beyond the current events. While I am very supportive of many of the issues of the OWS movement, I am convinced that they need several things to go beyond this stage:
1) a much narrower and defined message
2) leadership and direction
3) political alliances to try to channel this anger into actual reform and legislation

The OWS Movement grabbed out attention and served a noble purpose in bringing this issue of economic disparity and greed to the national front page. Now we need something much more than just camping out and demonstrating.

Of course, I come to these issues having been born in 1949 and as a child of the protests of the 50's and 60's so my frame of what works may be different than a college student today.
 
I don't think you have a good grasp on the OWS argument. They're not pissed because the banks got government goodies. they're pissed because they didn't.

I don't think YOU have a good grasp on what I had written. What have OWS gotten? Arrested, shot at, shot (possibly), tear gassed, flash banged, etc. What did the banks get? Billions and billions of tax payer money. The better scam was the one I mentioned.
 
I don't think YOU have a good grasp on what I had written. What have OWS gotten? Arrested, shot at, shot (possibly), tear gassed, flash banged, etc. What did the banks get? Billions and billions of tax payer money. The better scam was the one I mentioned.


Who got shot? Are you talking about the ex Marine that says he got knocked on the head by a gas canister? The same ex Marine that started the web site ihatemarines.com? That guy?

Keep up that Libertarian facade dude, we see through it.

j-mac
 
Who got shot? Are you talking about the ex Marine that says he got knocked on the head by a gas canister? The same ex Marine that started the web site ihatemarines.com? That guy?

It's the story I know of, and I said possibly. Still, it's no billions and billions of dollars.

Keep up that Libertarian facade dude, we see through it.

j-mac

But you don't see clearly. You don't even understand my points. So should I care what you think? The answer is "no".
 
As I see it Oakland police should great restraint in dealing with this violent anarchists who should have had water cannons used against them. They were there to show their asses and they did so with gusto.
 
If that is true, it is in the infancy stage.

It's an interesting point, right? None of us have actually seen rebellion, so we don't know what it looks like. Is this really the infant stages of it? I wouldn't put much stock in it, but it will be interesting to see how this goes. It could just blow up into a giant riot, this is Oakland after all. It could consolidate into a purposeful resistance movement against government, most likely (I think) it will eventually disperse and everyone will go home. Since we've never seen on, we can't really point to factors. All we have are stories of another group of 'hippie" occupiers had occupied Boston, thrown objects at the soldiers there to "maintain peace", and then were eventually shot.
 
It's the story I know of, and I said possibly. Still, it's no billions and billions of dollars.

Ok, so leaving out the obvious hack, shill, uber leftie, anti American boob this guy is, and leave out that no conclusive proof points to him being struck in the head by a CS canister, could have just as easily been a rock, or bottle coming from the protester side, leave all of that out, and you have that they are mad at the bailouts. Well, ok, whoop de doo! Welcome to the party! So is the Tea Party, but let's take a look at the differences of the two 'movements' shall we?

OWS blames the banks, leaving out half of the equation when it comes to greed and what actually happened to drive housing into the dirt.

Tea party blames government and too much central planning that created a bubble by offering free money to those who either couldn't, or had no intent to ever pay that money back.

OWS makes their point by breaking the law, and taking over places, breaking things, destroying property, and clashing with police.

Tea party made their point by gaining permits, holding peaceful rallies, and leaving the place cleaner than when they came.

You tell me which one you support?

But you don't see clearly. You don't even understand my points. So should I care what you think? The answer is "no".

I understand pretty well I think, if there is something I am missing maybe that is because you are being purposely unclear, that burden is on you, not me. But hey, if you don't want to debate those that disagree with your support of OWS then why are you in this thread? To troll?

j-mac
 
Ok, so leaving out the obvious hack, shill, uber leftie, anti American boob this guy is, and leave out that no conclusive proof points to him being struck in the head by a CS canister, could have just as easily been a rock, or bottle coming from the protester side,

That's why I said possibly. Jesus.

leave all of that out, and you have that they are mad at the bailouts. Well, ok, whoop de doo! Welcome to the party! So is the Tea Party, but let's take a look at the differences of the two 'movements' shall we?

That is one of their main contentions, yes. Tea Partiers aren't in it for the long haul though. They could learn a lesson from OWS. That's what commitment and resolve look like. Sure, they don't have to go the route of Oakland, and many other OWS movements have been very peaceful and people have prescribe themselves to the boundary of law. But they don't stop, they don't give up, they keep coming back. One some level, there are at least a few admirable qualities about the movement in those terms of perseverance.

OWS blames the banks, leaving out half of the equation when it comes to greed and what actually happened to drive housing into the dirt.

Tea party blames government and too much central planning that created a bubble by offering free money to those who either couldn't, or had no intent to ever pay that money back.

Well put the two together and we get the big picture then. Tea Party and OWS, peanut butter and chocolate.

OWS makes their point by breaking the law, and taking over places, breaking things, destroying property, and clashing with police.

Not really. In one city in particular it has become very serious. In other cities there are minor clashes, and in still other cities it's perfectly peaceful.

Tea party made their point by gaining permits, holding peaceful rallies, and leaving the place cleaner than when they came.

They certainly have admirable qualities too...I wouldn't mind seeing the Tea Party get a bit more aggressive though.

You tell me which one you support?

Both. I love protest, I love freedom, I love seeing it all in action. I love dissent, I love the People asserting themselves, I love to watch the government reel. I love this Republic, and understand that it must be kept through action of the people, I applaud all attempts to do just that. I love questioning authority, I love my rights, I love my liberty, I love all those who rise up to stand for theirs.

I support both sides and their right to assemble and protest; to it's maximum. They are both faces of freedom.

I understand pretty well I think, if there is something I am missing maybe that is because you are being purposely unclear, that burden is on you, not me. But hey, if you don't want to debate those that disagree with your support of OWS then why are you in this thread? To troll?

j-mac

I've been perfectly clear, I fear that perhaps you have just overestimated your abilities to understand a bit though.
 
That's why I said possibly. Jesus.

Just reiterating the point, and no I am no where near the level of Jesus. But thanks for the complement.


That is one of their main contentions, yes. Tea Partiers aren't in it for the long haul though. They could learn a lesson from OWS.

What ever you are talking about here is really convoluted. The Tea Party has made effective change in whom the elections are won by giving voice to the people trough the system, where as the OWS so far is going around breaking law, destroying the economy to a greater extent, and anarchy. In fact, any objective look at comparing the two in our system of government has to conclude that the Tea Party is the group making the more effective gains.

That's what commitment and resolve look like.

Really? I think it looks more like a giant out of control temper tantrum.

Sure, they don't have to go the route of Oakland, and many other OWS movements have been very peaceful and people have prescribe themselves to the boundary of law.

Really? You mean like the rape, theft, and assault? Like the blocking of traffic, noise, and trespass? You mean like the lack of permit, unlawful assembly, and harassment of homeowners, and by standers? That boundary of law?

But they don't stop, they don't give up, they keep coming back.

They haven't yet begun to feel the force of law.

One some level, there are at least a few admirable qualities about the movement in those terms of perseverance.

So far none that I can see, unless you count the ability to look and act like complete idiots.

Well put the two together and we get the big picture then. Tea Party and OWS, peanut butter and chocolate.

Not even close. the quasi Marxist message of wealth redistribution, coupled with extreme class warfare is not what would even win a plurality of the American sentiment much less a majority.

Not really. In one city in particular it has become very serious. In other cities there are minor clashes, and in still other cities it's perfectly peaceful.


So rape, even that of a minor, prostitution, drug use, assault, and the myriad of other laws and ordinances broken by these children are perfectly peaceful eh.....?

They certainly have admirable qualities too...I wouldn't mind seeing the Tea Party get a bit more aggressive though.

So as before your bent seems to want violent clash. Why? Do you really think that would be a positive thing for this country?

Both. I love protest, I love freedom, I love seeing it all in action. I love dissent, I love the People asserting themselves, I love to watch the government reel. I love this Republic, and understand that it must be kept through action of the people, I applaud all attempts to do just that.

Fine except that OWS doesn't want that....Their message seems to be one of greater government control through distribution of wealth and resource. Less freedom, less of the Republic and more of pure democracy, which is NOT what we are.

You for that?

I love questioning authority, I love my rights, I love my liberty, I love all those who rise up to stand for theirs.


Liberty is NOT what this group stands for.

I support both sides and their right to assemble and protest; to it's maximum. They are both faces of freedom.

Shouldn't they do it legally?

I've been perfectly clear, I fear that perhaps you have just overestimated your abilities to understand a bit though.

Ah, there it is...Since I think your position is convoluted and garbled, instead of clarifying just what the hell you are saying, you think it just easier to attack me by implying that I am too stupid to understand it....You know who else uses that tactic? Allenskite Marxist progressives.


j-mac
 
I don't think YOU have a good grasp on what I had written. What have OWS gotten? Arrested, shot at, shot (possibly), tear gassed, flash banged, etc. What did the banks get? Billions and billions of tax payer money. The better scam was the one I mentioned.

That is what happens when you act like a bunch of rioting goons.

We have Occupy protesters here... about maybe 50-100 steady throughout the week.

And... no problems.... because they haven't been acting like riotous morons.
 
As I see it Oakland police should great restraint in dealing with this violent anarchists who should have had water cannons used against them. They were there to show their asses and they did so with gusto.

Thats what happens when the city leadership... namely the Mayor.... shows weakness.

She gave them a mile (not an inch), and they took 10 miles.
 
That is what happens when you act like a bunch of rioting goons.

We have Occupy protesters here... about maybe 50-100 steady throughout the week.

And... no problems.... because they haven't been acting like riotous morons.

That's fine. As I said with j-mac too, there are OWS protests which have been very peaceful and within the confines of the law. He doesn't seem to think so, rather it appears he assumes ALL OWS have rapes and blah blah blah; that long list he put on.

But regardless, that doesn't take away from my point in that post that the Banks ran the better scam that OWS.
 
That's fine. As I said with j-mac too, there are OWS protests which have been very peaceful and within the confines of the law. He doesn't seem to think so, rather it appears he assumes ALL OWS have rapes and blah blah blah; that long list he put on.

But regardless, that doesn't take away from my point in that post that the Banks ran the better scam that OWS.

First of all, please name the OWS protests that have adhered to the rule of law, and been totally peaceful.

Second, there is no doubt that the Banks had a major hand in the the bubble burst that was the housing collapse, and led to the depression we are in. But, that is only half the story, or cause, and because OWS is unwilling to address the entirety of reasoning, and causality of that collapse, then we are doomed to repeat it over, and over again until we get it right, or dissolve as a country.

One of the most disturbing things to me over all of this is not that this happened, but that there are cheerleaders on the sidelines that are openly advocating the 'burn it down' mentality. And in order to achieve the ends of what the demonstrators think they want, they are getting in bed so to speak with some very nefarious types that don't seek what they do in so far as they are against what America stands for.

To advocate anything violent, and hope for it to happen is to say that America should cease to be America. How is that good?

j-mac
 
Tea Partiers aren't in it for the long haul though.

:lamo:lamo

Yeah, after changing the entire political landscape last November, all of those fiscal conservatives, fiscal libertarians, fiscal democrats are simply going to stop voting for principles that just crushed the liberals. You have no idea what drives the Tea Party movement.
 
:lamo:lamo

Yeah, after changing the entire political landscape last November, all of those fiscal conservatives, fiscal libertarians, fiscal democrats are simply going to stop voting for principles that just crushed the liberals. You have no idea what drives the Tea Party movement.

The Tea Party has been taken over by standard politics now. What are they doing? They got a few guys in office, we got a balanced budget yet? No? Everyone likes to bitch about the OWS, but what has the TP accomplished in any real terms?
 
The Tea Party has been taken over by standard politics now. What are they doing? They got a few guys in office, we got a balanced budget yet? No? Everyone likes to bitch about the OWS, but what has the TP accomplished in any real terms?

Oh, so change must be overnight for it to be valid.....TP was instrumental in taking at least the congress back, and now are overseeing, and watchdoging them to hold their votes accountable to the voters that voted them in.

But I see how OWS is much better because hey, they can break stuff, make noise, rape and pillage, and get away with it.....


j-mac
 
Oh, so change must be overnight for it to be valid.....TP was instrumental in taking at least the congress back, and now are overseeing, and watchdoging them to hold their votes accountable to the voters that voted them in.

But I see how OWS is much better because hey, they can break stuff, make noise, rape and pillage, and get away with it.....


j-mac

I don't know the time scales y'all are talking about. People complain that OWS hasn't done anything. But the TP has been around longer, what have they done?

The whole of OWS ain't doing what you're claiming and no one is saying they should get away with it. So perhaps if you want to try to engage honestly in debate you should be honest. This is what I dislike most about partisans; you'll rally against a side and use as much hyperbole and dishonesty as possible, but it's reverse thrusters should it come on your side. Without integrity, there's very little point. Get some.
 
I don't know the time scales y'all are talking about. People complain that OWS hasn't done anything. But the TP has been around longer, what have they done?

You can not be serious...

Most Tea Party activities since 2010 have been focused on opposing the efforts (supported by the Obama Administration) to enact reforms to health insurance and health care delivery, and on recruiting, nominating, and supporting candidates for upcoming state and national elections

Tea Party protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tea Partying lawmakers are credited with getting House Speaker John Boehner to back away from a bigger $4 trillion deal to cut the deficit in favor of a package with smaller, $2 trillion ambitions. And they didn't have to have a big confrontation with Republican leaders to make it happen.

snip

But the freshmen have still been able to push the House rightward, The New York Times' Nate Silver explains. GOP n00bs are a little bit more conservative than average--they vote the liberal position 6.8 percent of the time, compared to GOP veterans' 7.5 percent of the time--but they tend to be from more moderate districts than the veterans. By Silver's analysis, "80 percent of the first-termers are more conservative than you'd 'expect' based on knowing how the veteran Republicans are voting."

The Tea Party's Accomplishments in Congress So Far - Yahoo! News

To not aknowledge that the Tea Party has been influential is to employ the height of arrogance, and hypocricy considering what you accuse me of here...

Without integrity, there's very little point. Get some.

Yes sir, get some indeed.


j-mac
 
So they sit around and bitch about healthcare. Have they accomplished anything? Of course there is compromise, that's inherent to the system. But if their contention is that it doesn't exist, have they made true strides to accomplish that goal?

In the end if we're going to say that OWS is sitting around bitching and not doing anything, is the TP any different (I think so, but not along the lines some of y'all probably take).
 
Happy Thanksgiving, folks:

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So they sit around and bitch about healthcare. Have they accomplished anything? Of course there is compromise, that's inherent to the system. But if their contention is that it doesn't exist, have they made true strides to accomplish that goal?

In the end if we're going to say that OWS is sitting around bitching and not doing anything, is the TP any different (I think so, but not along the lines some of y'all probably take).

I agree. But mostly because I don't agree that protesting in this day and age really does much.

Most of the rest of society say, "good for them." while turning around and also saying "they look like a bunch of idiots".... I guess its a "duality of man" thing.

The only reason why the Tea Party can lay claim to having actually done something is because they have been around long enough to affect an election.

How many elections have been held since OWS started?
 
I agree. But mostly because I don't agree that protesting in this day and age really does much.

It may or may not. But it is a necessary right of the People, of the individual. And thus we must uphold it to its maximum.
 
It may or may not. But it is a necessary right of the People, of the individual. And thus we must uphold it to its maximum.

I don't think that ANYONE disagrees that to protest is a fundamental right. But, we must also protect those who choose not to protest in their right to not participate, or protect those innocent of the protest message from damage caused by the so called peaceful protesters.

j-mac
 
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