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Thread: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

  1. #101
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    While that's possible, healthy people still cost the government more, by living longer.
    uhc....i'm all for it.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    uhc....i'm all for it.
    My company is starting an HSA for 2012, now that I finally get the insurance I want from them.
    I def don't want UHC.
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    uhc....i'm all for it.

    Simple, just relocate to Canada.

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  4. #104
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Which brings us back to the point that smokers already pay a lot more, through taxation, even though they don't cost society more.
    Still really stupid, if you ask me.
    Gosh, I had no idea that the oxygen tanks for those with emphysema were free. Lung cancer must be the cheapest cancer to treat there is as well.

    People that take care of themselves do not necessarily live longer than the obese or smokers, they simply have a better quality of life later in their lives and consume far less healthcare later in there lives. Its far cheaper to be healthy, your health deteriorate rather quickly over the course of a couple of months, then you die, than it is to be in poor health for decades before the chronic diseases you have (heart disease, adult onset diabetes, or emphysema) finally kill you.
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Gosh, I had no idea that the oxygen tanks for those with emphysema were free. Lung cancer must be the cheapest cancer to treat there is as well.
    Not that it's free. But over half the cost of tobacco products currently is tax, and those taxes were created for the purpose of offsetting the additional healthcare costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    People that take care of themselves do not necessarily live longer than the obese or smokers, they simply have a better quality of life later in their lives and consume far less healthcare later in there lives. Its far cheaper to be healthy, your health deteriorate rather quickly over the course of a couple of months, then you die, than it is to be in poor health for decades before the chronic diseases you have (heart disease, adult onset diabetes, or emphysema) finally kill you.
    Except that statistically this isn't true. Smokers will come down with big disease earlier than non-smokers. But they will also die earlier. If you live a healthy life, when you're knocking on death's door it takes A LOT of money to keep you alive for another 6 months. The smokers, who already pay, whom succumb to disease earlier in life tend to die earlier in life and thus do not incur the end of life costs that "healthy" people will eventually realize.

    Furthermore, their earlier deaths save on all sorts of things from pensions, medicare, social security, etc. Dying early is cheaper than holding on.
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not that it's free. But over half the cost of tobacco products currently is tax, and those taxes were created for the purpose of offsetting the additional healthcare costs.



    Except that statistically this isn't true. Smokers will come down with big disease earlier than non-smokers. But they will also die earlier. If you live a healthy life, when you're knocking on death's door it takes A LOT of money to keep you alive for another 6 months. The smokers, who already pay, whom succumb to disease earlier in life tend to die earlier in life and thus do not incur the end of life costs that "healthy" people will eventually realize.

    Furthermore, their earlier deaths save on all sorts of things from pensions, medicare, social security, etc. Dying early is cheaper than holding on.
    Do you have any sources at all to back up your claim that the chronic diseases associated with smoking and obesity are cheaper - because they live shorter lives, than what the average healthy fit individual consumes?

    If your fat, you are getting a knee replacement at 50, high blood pressure drugs from 40s on, cholesterol drugs from 40s on, adult onset diabetes drugs and treatments many times, and various other treatments and surgeries related to heart disease and joint deterioration until you die.

    If you are a smoker, chances are you have all that, plus the health issues associated with smoking. Yet that is supposed to be cheaper than the 65 year old guy that still runs, eats right, maintains a health bmi, and does not take any drugs for blood pressure or cholesterol?
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  7. #107
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Which brings us back to the point that smokers already pay a lot more, through taxation, even though they don't cost society more.
    Still really stupid, if you ask me.
    But if they are costing the EMPLOYER more, the taxes don't cover that increased cost to the employer...
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Do you have any sources at all to back up your claim that the chronic diseases associated with smoking and obesity are cheaper - because they live shorter lives, than what the average healthy fit individual consumes?

    If your fat, you are getting a knee replacement at 50, high blood pressure drugs from 40s on, cholesterol drugs from 40s on, adult onset diabetes drugs and treatments many times, and various other treatments and surgeries related to heart disease and joint deterioration until you die.

    If you are a smoker, chances are you have all that, plus the health issues associated with smoking. Yet that is supposed to be cheaper than the 65 year old guy that still runs, eats right, maintains a health bmi, and does not take any drugs for blood pressure or cholesterol?
    Not to mention that the healthy 65-year-old can still be a highly productive member of society...
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  9. #109
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Not to mention that the healthy 65-year-old can still be a highly productive member of society...
    That's a good point. Long after the typical smoker is on the oxygen and drawing disability, a healthy and fit senior is still working and still paying taxes.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  10. #110
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Open discrimination to be honest, why not charge old people double the standard because of the costs they accrue?
    Jeez. Don't give them any ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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