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Thread: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

  1. #91
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No one, and especially not myself is disputing that we eat way too much junk food today. That is NOT in dispute. Nor am I even disputing that those in our society that ignore warnings of what obesity, and smoking does shouldn't necessarily have to pony up more for the care they will eventually require (even though smokers in many cases already do in company insurance plans.) But rather, this is not what you were getting at when you made your flippant comment entering the thread this morning, mocking the overweight.

    I have some ideas, but will discuss them with people that want discussion and not bigotry.


    j-mac
    saying that fat americans can lose weight is hardly flippant. it IS mostly their own fault. btw, i could lose a few pounds myself, but i KNOW it's my own fault i haven't. whatever happened to the conservative idea that a person is repsonsible for themselves? are fat people VICTIMS?

    my comment was exactly what it said. most fat people can lose what weight if they want.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  2. #92
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    saying that fat americans can lose weight is hardly flippant. it IS mostly their own fault. btw, i could lose a few pounds myself, but i KNOW it's my own fault i haven't. whatever happened to the conservative idea that a person is repsonsible for themselves? are fat people VICTIMS?

    my comment was exactly what it said. most fat people can lose what weight if they want.
    Victims? certainly not. Personal responsibility should be the standard. But the entrance into the discussion today wasn't simply a statement from you about how the people suffering obesity can change their lives to healthier paths, it was a simple statement of how it is their own fault, that included a smiley for that added bit of mockery as insult...Now it is your ilk that runs around hollering PC, and we can't be going around mocking everyone, that we must be inclusive, and sympathetic of those that have problems....I guess that is subjective in the liberal mind.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  3. #93
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They actually cost a little less, overall. But only because non-smokers, on average, live about 10 years longer.

    MMS: Error
    Do smokers cost society money? - USATODAY.com

    But, in that case, you would have to take into account that most of the medical costs for those non-smokers are going to be near the end of life, most likely after retirement age, or at least after reaching Medicare age. So, as far as insurances that are offered as worker plans, within that time frame, the smokers are more likely to cost insurance companies more in health care costs, especially older smokers.

    Basically, those insurance companies that are providing health care for workers are not interested in the overall costs of a lifetime smoker compared to a lifetime non-smoker, since the increase in cost of a non-smoker is likely to come after the person no longer has that particular insurance.
    Which brings us back to the point that smokers already pay a lot more, through taxation, even though they don't cost society more.
    Still really stupid, if you ask me.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Which brings us back to the point that smokers already pay a lot more, through taxation, even though they don't cost society more.
    Still really stupid, if you ask me.
    Honestly, I just want a NHC system. I think insurance sucks, as it is now. It seems stupid to mandate a middle man or middle group.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They actually cost a little less, overall. But only because non-smokers, on average, live about 10 years longer.
    Yup, plus they subsidize pensions and such by dying early. Not saying that's particularly a good thing, but that's less money in general through companies, through Medicare, through Social Security, etc. that we're spending on smokers.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #96
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    it is a free country, and insurance companies are free to charge what they want. precisely why we need universal healthcare. i thought you were a libertarian?
    Except that we're forced via government to have it, and when Obama care kicks in, we all have to have health "insurance". There's no public option, so you're stuck. My being libertarian has nothing to do with what I wrote. It's the reality of the system.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #97
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Which brings us back to the point that smokers already pay a lot more, through taxation, even though they don't cost society more.
    Still really stupid, if you ask me.
    i think they do cost society more.......children of smokers are more likely to have asthma and other respiratory diesases.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  8. #98
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Honestly, I just want a NHC system. I think insurance sucks, as it is now. It seems stupid to mandate a middle man or middle group.
    You're always going to have a middle group of middle man, for catastrophic care.
    That's the intent of insurance, in any form (government of private).

    If people stopped expecting insurance to pay for day to day stuff, the premiums for everyone would be a lot lower.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i think they do cost society more.......children of smokers are more likely to have asthma and other respiratory diesases.
    But someone listed research and study done which states they do not cost the healthcare system extra, and in fact may be slightly lower since they die earlier. It costs way more money to keep a very elderly person alive for 6 more months than it does to treat a smoker who dies. Additionally, there are other hidden cost reductions with smokers in the form of pensions, medicare, social security, etc.

    You're "I think they do cost society more" is not sufficient reasoning to charge them more particularly when A) They already PAY MORE through taxes B) Studies have shown that they do not cost the healthcare system more.
    Last edited by Ikari; 11-01-11 at 04:54 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #100
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    Re: Firms to charge smokers & obese more for healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i think they do cost society more.......children of smokers are more likely to have asthma and other respiratory diesases.
    While that's possible, healthy people still cost the government more, by living longer.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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