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Thread: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

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    Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Here we go again . . .
    An energy company that received a $43 million loan guarantee through the same federal program that backed Solyndra has followed the path of the failed solar firm and filed for bankruptcy. Beacon Power Corporation filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Sunday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Delaware. The company, which develops energy storage systems based on what are known as "flywheels," had received the federal guarantee for a 20-megawatt energy storage plant in Stephentown, N.Y., back in August 2010. The loan was expected to cover the lion's share of the $69 million project, one of several that Beacon was developing across the country. (snip)

    Rep. Morgan Griffith, R-Va., who sits on the House Energy and Commerce oversight subcommittee probing the program, said the news about Beacon Power is troubling. "We're very, very concerned about this and many other loans that have been made by the Department of Energy over the last several years," he told Fox News on Monday. Griffith said plenty of companies in the U.S. would make "good prospects" for federal help, but the committee investigation is trying to find out whether the government was "just trying to get the money out the door."

    Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee, called the revelation of the bankruptcy another example of "the reckless abuse of taxpayers' dollars in the pursuit of green jobs." He also suggested that crony capitalism had a hand in the decision to give Beacon a loan.

    Read more: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers | Fox News
    This is out-and-out theft from the taxpayers. When do the prosecutions start??
    Last edited by MaggieD; 10-31-11 at 06:00 PM.
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Here we go again . . .


    This is out-and-out theft from the taxpayers. When do the prosecutions start??
    Actually, Beacon is engaged in the business of frequency regulation, or "load leveling" for power grids. An article is here:

    Beacon Power's Spin on Energy Storage: It's a Service : Greentech Media

    Their kinetic batteries have considerable advantages over batteries or fuel cells. Initial cost is high, but per-cycle costs are considerably lower.

    They have a functioning plant, and another in the works.

    This isn't pie in the sky buck rogers silliness (hell, if the silicon market had remained as tight as it was, Solyndra would be a hot stock)

    This is apparently simply a result of a bad overall economy. They built an actual 20 megawatt plant with that loan, it wasn't flushed down the toilet. Its a young, capital hungry business in a capital poor environment. Hopefully they will be able to pull out, as the service they provide is going to be more and more important as our electrical grid evolves.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Actually, Beacon is engaged in the business of frequency regulation, or "load leveling" for power grids. An article is here:

    Beacon Power's Spin on Energy Storage: It's a Service : Greentech Media

    Their kinetic batteries have considerable advantages over batteries or fuel cells. Initial cost is high, but per-cycle costs are considerably lower.

    They have a functioning plant, and another in the works.

    This isn't pie in the sky buck rogers silliness (hell, if the silicon market had remained as tight as it was, Solyndra would be a hot stock)

    This is apparently simply a result of a bad overall economy. They built an actual 20 megawatt plant with that loan, it wasn't flushed down the toilet. Its a young, capital hungry business in a capital poor environment. Hopefully they will be able to pull out, as the service they provide is going to be more and more important as our electrical grid evolves.
    Since money is fungible, and since they've filed bankruptcy, and since we guaranteed $43 million of their loans, I think taxpayers can safely assume they're out $43 million.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Since money is fungible, and since they've filed bankruptcy, and since we guaranteed $43 million of their loans, I think taxpayers can safely assume they're out $43 million.
    I dont know, a fully functioning 20 megawatt energy storage/frequency regulation plant has got to be worth something.

    My hotrod electric bike I built carries just over half a kilowatt. A lithium power pack costs about $700 retail. Markup isn't high, so lets say $1000 a kilowatt for lithium storage, about a dollar a watt. So $20 million in flywheels alone, plus realestate the facility itself and whatever the value of existing business is as the plant is operating at capacity. So its not like their assets are worthless. Or that they can't sell what they are selling.
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Here we go again . . .


    This is out-and-out theft from the taxpayers. When do the prosecutions start??
    It's too bad that the GOP aren't going after the wasted money spent on contractors for projects in Iraq and Afghanistan with the same enthusiasm that they're going after energy loans the Obama administration made.

    Especially since the results of the former got people killed.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I dont know, a fully functioning 20 megawatt energy storage/frequency regulation plant has got to be worth something.

    My hotrod electric bike I built carries just over half a kilowatt. A lithium power pack costs about $700 retail. Markup isn't high, so lets say $1000 a kilowatt for lithium storage, about a dollar a watt. So $20 million in flywheels alone, plus realestate the facility itself and whatever the value of existing business is as the plant is operating at capacity. So its not like their assets are worthless. Or that they can't sell what they are selling.
    Obviously not.

    The so called green energy is going to have to tighten up if they want to put the oil companies out of business.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obviously not.

    The so called green energy is going to have to tighten up if they want to put the oil companies out of business.
    Has NOTHING to do with green energy, except as a balancing factor for intermittent sources like wind.

    Frequency regulation is a key component of oir electrical grid system. It has traditionally been performed by generators, which must be kept turning at all times at a fraction of their output. Flywheels are kinetic batteries, and require no fuel input to perform this function.

    Sometimes a new thing is just a good new thing and not some evil conspiracy to put you out of a job.

    And sometimes a business experiences difficulties due to the economy at large, not because it is actually unviable.

    Hatred af anything "green" just because its "green" is ridiculous.

    I happen to know a bit aboht flywheels as I had hoped they would be a viable vehicle energy source. Weight of containment and shock sensitivity at this point in time render them unsuitable for vehicles. But they work great for UPS and frequency regulation purposes.

    An estimated 2-4% of additional generation could be obtained without building new plants by freeing turbines from their role in FR and replacing them with flywheels. Allowing the turbines to operate at full power for generation.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    I wonder which Obama bundler is set up to benefit here?

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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    I don't understand this rabid anti-investment attitude. If this was 1950 alternative energy would be considered a national security problem and the government would of spent oodles of money to solve the problem. Like anything else there's failures and advancement but this Conservative obsession over every failure seems to point to this idea that the United States should get out of subsidizing research or something. Historical the US as subsidized more research than any other country in the world. It's why we were so more advanced on computers, the microchip, sattelite technology, the internet, etc.

    It seems like you guys are so obsessed with taxes you just wanna hold your fistful of dollars while America slips into decline.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Here we go again . . .


    This is out-and-out theft from the taxpayers. When do the prosecutions start??
    At the exact same time Goldmen Sachs gets prosecuted and executed in Texas.
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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