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Thread: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

  1. #71
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Good grief.

    This isn't about Halliburton, The Iraq War, or any of that nonsense

    Its about an Energy Company....

    7 pages of derailment, you people should be ashamed of yourselves.
    What this is about is attacking the President. If it was only about his wasting the taxpayer money, it would be justified. But unfortunately - I'm not necessarily accusing you of this, MaggieD - it's attacking the President for no other reason than he is a Democrat.

    These widely publicized failures of Solyndra and Beacon are intended to attack the reputation of the Democratic Party. For me, I don't give a s**t about that. What I don't like, what I absolutely hate, is that this attack has the effect of undermining an essential energy policy. Government support of alternative energies is important for updating an antiquated energy system that is doomed to fail at some time in the future. I don't know when that will happen but waiting until it happens is waiting far too long. This energy update makes the US immune to the political and economic foibles of the middle-east and unstable, but oil-rich nations. That makes this update critical to the future stability and integrity of the United States.

    So when people who make a big toodoo about the failure of Solar companies, they think they're only attacking the Democrats and undermining their efforts. What they're really doing is undermining the future security and integrity of the entire country. I consider these attacks as attacks on the United States, and I'm sorry but I get just a bit pissy about it when someone attacks my country. I realize people don't think they're attacking the US and maybe that wasn't the intent, but it has the effect of a domestic attack.

    If anyone should feel shame it's those who attack the future of all Americans just to play childish and stupid political games.
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Other than financing the development of awesometastic weapon systems, the federal government has no Constitutional power to use taxpayer monies to fund ANY R&D. Shut all of it down. Let the market place allocate the capital to R&D projects it thinks may be economically viable. I am sick and tired of reading about the massive waste spent on R&D projects at the federal level. Nobody has ever done a ROI on the hundreds of billions, maybe trillions of dollars, the federal government has poured into R&D.
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    Other than financing the development of awesometastic weapon systems, the federal government has no Constitutional power to use taxpayer monies to fund ANY R&D. Shut all of it down. Let the market place allocate the capital to R&D projects it thinks may be economically viable. I am sick and tired of reading about the massive waste spent on R&D projects at the federal level. Nobody has ever done a ROI on the hundreds of billions, maybe trillions of dollars, the federal government has poured into R&D.
    Thank God you weren't an adviser to JFK.

    There would be no internet, no GPS...no TANG! For God's sake man...no TANG!!!!

    But seriously, government investment in research and infrastructure has created BILLIONS in private capital and profit when private companies were able to blossom from the fertile ground laid by government research.

    No internet - you get no EBay, no Google, no Amazon.com nor any other successful private company. And the internet came from our government and investment in research.

    If profit is the sole motive for successful research, then you essentially make the claim that TWO AND HALF MEN is equivalent to DON GIOVANNI, or that a McDonald's cheeseburger is the same as Maine lobster and Kobe beef. TWO AND A HALF MEN and McDonald's are highly profitable. But they don't do anything to improve humanity or raise our standards.

    Good research is about improving us as a species - not about a buck. You call for the McDonaldsization of the world; while I see a place for McDonald's, but call for a nation that continually attempts to improve life for its people through investment in grand ideas - ideas that will succeed and ideas that will sometimes fail.

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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Thank God you weren't an adviser to JFK.

    There would be no internet, no GPS...no TANG! For God's sake man...no TANG!!!!

    But seriously, government investment in research and infrastructure has created BILLIONS in private capital and profit when private companies were able to blossom from the fertile ground laid by government research.

    No internet - you get no EBay, no Google, no Amazon.com nor any other successful private company. And the internet came from our government and investment in research.

    If profit is the sole motive for successful research, then you essentially make the claim that TWO AND HALF MEN is equivalent to DON GIOVANNI, or that a McDonald's cheeseburger is the same as Maine lobster and Kobe beef. TWO AND A HALF MEN and McDonald's are highly profitable. But they don't do anything to improve humanity or raise our standards.

    Good research is about improving us as a species - not about a buck. You call for the McDonaldsization of the world; while I see a place for McDonald's, but call for a nation that continually attempts to improve life for its people through investment in grand ideas - ideas that will succeed and ideas that will sometimes fail.
    Those are assumptions just like you are assuming without the government R&D funding none of that stuff would have been developed.....on that point I strongly disagree with you. Humans have been inventing for thousands of years and most of those inventions did not receive any government funding.

    BTW - you almost had me backpeddling on the no TANG comment. I then realized someone would have eventually spilled some sugar and vitamin C in a glass and figurde out that one.
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    What this is about is attacking the President. If it was only about his wasting the taxpayer money, it would be justified. But unfortunately - I'm not necessarily accusing you of this, MaggieD - it's attacking the President for no other reason than he is a Democrat.
    No. It's not about attacking the President. Well, I guess it is, since Obama made the decisions. But it's much more than that. It's the whole darned system. Doesn't someone/anyone have to account for having flushed $100 million taxpayers dollars down the toilet within a year? (Both companies) What are we doing as a nation? Rolling the dice? Putting it all on black? And I'd be putting this thread up regardless of who was president, Dem or Rep. Obama just happened to luck out on these two.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No. It's not about attacking the President. Well, I guess it is, since Obama made the decisions. But it's much more than that. It's the whole darned system. Doesn't someone/anyone have to account for having flushed $100 million taxpayers dollars down the toilet within a year? (Both companies) What are we doing as a nation? Rolling the dice? Putting it all on black? And I'd be putting this thread up regardless of who was president, Dem or Rep. Obama just happened to luck out on these two.
    If it was someone else saying this, MaggieD, I'd be shouting Bunk, but based on previous posts I believe your intent is not party-centric. My comments are still directed at others in this thread and related ones where the posters only desire to attack Obama and foolishly fail to think about what else they destroy in the process. For me, I don't care who's in charge of the energy policy (Republican or Democrat or Whatever) as long as they're not stupidly expecting foreign oil to fulfill our future energy needs.

    As far as the $100 million lost. I think we are witnessing some slick hucksters who are taking advantage of government funding. If this was deliberate (a hard thing to prove) then taking two days to skin the perps alive and leave them for the ants...is just too kind a fate for them.

    This money the government is doling out is extremely important, not only because of current economic woes, but because it's vital to future US interests. So I'm not sure who specifically is deciding what companies get government money, but he needs to be sacked. As much as I oppose government meddling, I think whenever gov't money is given for energy projects, it needs to be doled out piecemeal and with a certain amount of oversight. Companies simply cannot go bankrupt while the government is feeding them cash. That is inexcusable! So to be certain the money isn't wasted on company parties, the government may need to play nursemaid. If companies aren't using government money, then there's no need for it.
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    If it was someone else saying this, MaggieD, I'd be shouting Bunk, but based on previous posts I believe your intent is not party-centric. My comments are still directed at others in this thread and related ones where the posters only desire to attack Obama and foolishly fail to think about what else they destroy in the process. For me, I don't care who's in charge of the energy policy (Republican or Democrat or Whatever) as long as they're not stupidly expecting foreign oil to fulfill our future energy needs.

    As far as the $100 million lost. I think we are witnessing some slick hucksters who are taking advantage of government funding. If this was deliberate (a hard thing to prove) then taking two days to skin the perps alive and leave them for the ants...is just too kind a fate for them.

    This money the government is doling out is extremely important, not only because of current economic woes, but because it's vital to future US interests. So I'm not sure who specifically is deciding what companies get government money, but he needs to be sacked. As much as I oppose government meddling, I think whenever gov't money is given for energy projects, it needs to be doled out piecemeal and with a certain amount of oversight. Companies simply cannot go bankrupt while the government is feeding them cash. That is inexcusable! So to be certain the money isn't wasted on company parties, the government may need to play nursemaid. If companies aren't using government money, then there's no need for it.
    We are in perfect agreement. ...specially that ants thingie.
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    Those are assumptions just like you are assuming without the government R&D funding none of that stuff would have been developed.....on that point I strongly disagree with you. Humans have been inventing for thousands of years and most of those inventions did not receive any government funding.

    BTW - you almost had me backpeddling on the no TANG comment. I then realized someone would have eventually spilled some sugar and vitamin C in a glass and figurde out that one.
    We used to be a nation of grand ideas. No we're a nation of "I've got mine, now leave me the **** alone."

    Internet. Interstate Highway System. Eradication of Polio and Smallpox. Public education for all citizens. A Man on the Moon. The GPS system.

    Compare that to what Donald Trump has done. Or the Koch Brothers. Or the Walton family (sure, Wal-Mart is HUGE, but it hasn't ended any diseases or made anyone smarter, with the possible exception of a few higher-up employees who might've had tuition assistance).

    Grand projects and major advancements only come when we work together as a people. When profit is involved, some pretty nifty things arise, sure - but not the kinds of things that really move us forward. Our government didn't invent the airplane, but they certainly played a part in advancing aviation to the point we know it today.

    That's my point. When I think of the amazing things we've done - it's almost always involved the government.

    When government attacked a disease, it was eradicated. When for-profit companies attack a disease (first off, it has to have enough victims to make the disease profitable), they figure out how to make people live longer and become dependent on their drugs.

    McDonald's and Wal-Mart are cool and all, but while they've made money for some folks, they've done nothing to improve our species (and arguably have made it worse). I just can't think of one GRAND, course-of-humanity-changing thing that the private sector has brought us in the past few decades. If you'll let me know a few, I'll certainly cede the point, but I'm seriously trying to think of one, and I can not.

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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No. It's not about attacking the President. Well, I guess it is, since Obama made the decisions. But it's much more than that. It's the whole darned system. Doesn't someone/anyone have to account for having flushed $100 million taxpayers dollars down the toilet within a year? (Both companies) What are we doing as a nation? Rolling the dice? Putting it all on black? And I'd be putting this thread up regardless of who was president, Dem or Rep. Obama just happened to luck out on these two.
    We invested in the Internet too. You didn't freak out about that. Why?

    Do you think the government should only invest in projects that are guaranteed to be successful?
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    Re: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Thank God you weren't an adviser to JFK.

    There would be no internet, no GPS...no TANG! For God's sake man...no TANG!!!!

    But seriously, government investment in research and infrastructure has created BILLIONS in private capital and profit when private companies were able to blossom from the fertile ground laid by government research.

    No internet - you get no EBay, no Google, no Amazon.com nor any other successful private company. And the internet came from our government and investment in research.

    If profit is the sole motive for successful research, then you essentially make the claim that TWO AND HALF MEN is equivalent to DON GIOVANNI, or that a McDonald's cheeseburger is the same as Maine lobster and Kobe beef. TWO AND A HALF MEN and McDonald's are highly profitable. But they don't do anything to improve humanity or raise our standards.

    Good research is about improving us as a species - not about a buck. You call for the McDonaldsization of the world; while I see a place for McDonald's, but call for a nation that continually attempts to improve life for its people through investment in grand ideas - ideas that will succeed and ideas that will sometimes fail.
    He just said, "weapons R&D".
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