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Thread: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    why wouldnt' they? they've never had to face consequences before in their life. they think having to face consequences is mean and unfair - that's what this whole protest is about.
    Keep pretending that you don't get it. Others with far more vision do get it.

    according to Bloomberg Businessweek:
    They want more and better jobs, more equal distribution of income, less profit (or no profit) for banks, lower compensation for bankers, and more strictures on banks with regard to negotiating consumer services such as mortgages and debit cards. They also want to reduce the influence that corporations—financial firms in particular—wield in politics, and they want a more populist set of government priorities: bailouts for student debtors and mortgage holders, not just for banks.
    But you knew all this anyway and simply pretend to focus on stupid nonsense like trivia and hygiene and where somebody poops or pees because it helps you mock what you are afraid of. For folks of your ilk, its the same as whistling past a graveyard.
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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    I find it pretty entertaining how you argue that they don't want to avoid paying for themselves or facing the consequences of their actions.... and then you unironically cite an piece claiming that they are demanding a bail-out.

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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Keep pretending that you don't get it. Others with far more vision do get it.

    according to Bloomberg Businessweek:


    But you knew all this anyway and simply pretend to focus on stupid nonsense like trivia and hygiene and where somebody poops or pees because it helps you mock what you are afraid of. For folks of your ilk, its the same as whistling past a graveyard.
    Get a clue, they're not going to get any of that on Wall Street. Half the freaking federal budget is a redistribution. Hello?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    I'll admit, I am curious about why I am supposed to be afraid of these people. Are they breeding some kind of supervirus in there?

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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I know what he's trying to describe - I've been through the SOTG non-lethal course as well. (incidentally, your bit about humanity? oleoresin capscicum (and you suggested foam!)..... trust me on this one. not humane. I'd rather you just beat me with a stick ). Those are not the rules for a warzone. Those aren't even the rules for a tax-free danger area such as Kuwait, for cripes sakes. In a warzone - always you have live rounds. Never are you allowed to not to have live rounds.

    but you do have shotguns, that is true, with beanbags, as I have mentioned before. which can also kill, should they strike you in the head.




    but hey, ya'll keep trying to whitewash the actions of the crowd by trying to smear the cops. it's a good media image, at least, so maybe it will work out for you.
    Are you saying the Marine is wrong. It's not like police don't make mistakes. No doubt there's been error on both sides, because protesters can be beligerent too. But the police have to consider the fact that the protesters are generally unarmed. Regardless of the subject of the protest, we have to be careful to watch the crossing of the line in subduing speech or even the appearance thereof. Otherwise it could come to the point very quickly where the 2nd Amendment comes in and citizens begin to shoot back in an attempt to protect their right to speech. We don't want to go there. Because in the end whether the crowd was acting up or not, all that will be remembered is that citizens began fighting the govt for their rights.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Keep pretending that you don't get it. Others with far more vision do get it.
    What is there not to get? these people are (not all of them mind you) speaking for the most part against capitalism, and successful business in this country. It really is a childish stand.

    Let's take a look at the Bloomberg article you posted bit by bit shall we?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket's Bloomberg article
    They want more and better jobs,
    Don't we all want jobs....? Employers want to hire, and investors want to invest, but why would they when they are not sure what is going to happen down the road? And oh, BTW, I thought that the big business people, and investors weren't how jobs were created? Wasn't that the popular meme of the liberal left?

    more equal distribution of income
    This notion of "distribution" of income....Tell us, who distributes income? There is no such thing.

    less profit (or no profit) for banks, lower compensation for bankers
    Why do people get into business? No profit? heh, who would lend you money for nothing? Executive compensation should not be your concern. It is largely based on what the market will bear. Sounds like childish jealousy to me.

    and more strictures on banks with regard to negotiating consumer services such as mortgages and debit cards.
    So you want your money for nothin' and your chicks for free eh? Although some of the way banks are regulated need to be looked at as far as keeping a top on things like usury laws, I don't think it is the major banks doing such. You want the real problem striking the poor with interest, take a look at the payday loan industry, or title loans. Now there is some real ****heads in that industry.

    They also want to reduce the influence that corporations—financial firms in particular—wield in politics
    I agree in part, but only if they admit that unions also have to get out of politics.

    and they want a more populist set of government priorities: bailouts for student debtors and mortgage holders, not just for banks.
    Oh so, they want more freebies themselves....I am shocked! Good GAWD! these people are nuts!

    But you knew all this anyway and simply pretend to focus on stupid nonsense like trivia and hygiene and where somebody poops or pees because it helps you mock what you are afraid of. For folks of your ilk, its the same as whistling past a graveyard.
    When they start acting like adults, and not children throwing a temper tantrum, get back to us.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    Oh, and BTW, isn't there some question as to whether or not this IVAW marine was even hit by the canister in the first place? This guy could have been hit by the rocks, and bottles that other protesters were throwing at the police. But I guess the police are just supposed to take it eh?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Get a clue, they're not going to get any of that on Wall Street. Half the freaking federal budget is a redistribution. Hello?
    Do you labor under the delusion that the OWS demonstrators are begging Wall Street to do things things out of the goodness of their heart?

    No wonder the right wing lives at the bottom of that rabbit hole.

    This is about drawing attention to problems and alerting the people of the nation to the dangers before us.

    j-mac gives us an indication of his thinking process replying to my comment

    more equal distribution of income


    with this nugget of 'wisdom'

    This notion of "distribution" of income....Tell us, who distributes income? There is no such thing.
    There is no such thing as income distribution!?!?!?!? Amazing. And you got this economic truth from where exactly? That statements is indicative of the rest of your reply.

    I agree in part, but only if they admit that unions also have to get out of politics.
    You cannot pass up an opportunity - even a lame one - to attacks unions can you? Predictable and silly.

    on banks needing to get less profit ...... less profit (or no profit) for banks

    Why do people get into business? No profit? heh, who would lend you money for nothing? Executive compensation should not be your concern. It is largely based on what the market will bear. Sounds like childish jealousy to me.
    Do you know the difference between the words LESS and NO when discussing profit? Obviously either you do not or you do not care to examine the difference. Less profit is a reasonable demand. I agree that NO profit is not a reasonable but I have seen no real advocacy for that sort of thing outside of this Bloomberg framing of the ideas. But a nice try to distort and pervert the actual words they said with a strawman of your own making for a much easier target.

    Don't we all want jobs....?
    Obviously NOT. People on the right here scream, rant and whine about the need to fire public employees and make government smaller. Companies cut millions of jobs and find out they can do just nicely thank you without them. Obviously WE ALL DO NOT WANT JOBS.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-31-11 at 11:10 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    They want more and better jobs, more equal distribution of income, less profit (or no profit) for banks, lower compensation for bankers, and more strictures on banks with regard to negotiating consumer services such as mortgages and debit cards. They also want to reduce the influence that corporations—financial firms in particular—wield in politics, and they want a more populist set of government priorities: bailouts for student debtors and mortgage holders, not just for banks.
    Those are the folks that, "get it"? I'll keep not, "getting it", but thanks anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Those are the folks that, "get it"? I'll keep not, "getting it", but thanks anyway.
    Your announcement that you do not get it comes right after the news bulletin on the CNN news that the sun came up in the east this morning.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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